The Shame of the Shepherds

Crisis: Politics, Culture & the Church | April 2002 | Ralph McInerny

[Catholicguy]

You wouldn't believe the sex ed program I just got done fighting at my kids Catholic school."

Unfortunately, I would believe it. I used to live in the Diocese of Portland, Maine. I taught my children Catechism so corrupt was that Diocese. I used to go to the Indult Mass and regularly met with other Catholic Fathers who had sent their children out of State. They knew the Diocese could not be relied upon to deliver Catholic Truth in Catholic Schools.

A group of us met with Bishop Joseph Gerry and our concerns were met with denial and obfuscation. We were promised another meeting but another meeting nbever occured. That is standard procedure for AmBishops.

I even had the then Chancellor of the Diocese tell me ,"...... (my name blanked out), everyone over here thinks you are nuts. We really do. You are crazy.

While true, it wasn't "compassionate."

[Brian Kopp DPM]

For God so loved the world that He DID NOT send a Committee or a Commission.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

I'm holding out on more info to pass judgement on the Legionaries founder. The libs HATE the LoC and will do anything to discredit it, even creating lies. I have yet to see any proof that the LoC founder is guilty, yet today nothing would surprise me...

[nickcarraway]

Trojan Horse Reformation

The deepest irony of all is that the cowardice of bishops was largely due to a desire to be treated well by the secular media.

They will only be treated well by the media as long as they're attacking the Church. In the next breath, they could be vilified as retrograde, conservative, etc., as long as they're still Catholic

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

"...the diocese could not be relied upon to deliver Catholic truth in Catholic schools..."

Isn't that terrible? This happens in secondary schools and colleges as well. What's worse is that very fine and faithful "Catholic" teachers frequently leave such institutions out of disgust and other orthodox Catholic teachers find it almost impossible to be hired by the liberal mafia ruining them.

Click here: http://www.cruxnews.com

Gay Bullies Terrorize Catholics in Seminaries

[sinkspur]

I'm not sure what you mean by the that. Do you think Doctrine changes or develops? Do you think it possible for a Pope to "change" Doctrine on contraception?

It doesn't matter what I think. As to a doctrine "changing," slavery, at one time viewed as at least morally neutral, was finally condemned. So, yes.

Paul VI convened a commission to study the Church's teaching on contraception; after a couple of years, the commission voted, by a small majority, to revise the teaching to reflect that each and every sexual act does not have to be open to procreation as long as the marriage is open to children. Then, another two years passed before Humanae Vitae. During that four year period, the idea took hold that the teaching on contraception would change.

Why did Paul VI convene the commission in the first place? And why did he allow the commission to operate as it did? Certainly he had to know that the commission was not going to rubber stamp what had been taught before.

[sinkspur]

It goes back to the very nature of the priest and bishop who is solely configured configured to Christ as head and shepherd.

SPIRITUAL head and SPIRITUAL shepherd, Renatus. Ordination does not convey political wisdom or physical leadership qualities.

There is a happy medium which, hopefully, can be reached between the trusteeism (which the 20th century American Church never had to deal with) and the extreme clericalism which is characterized by priests and bishops who think they can simply ignore the laity.

[maryz]

For God so loved the world that He DID NOT send a Committee or a Commission.

LOL -- Well worth repeating!

[Stentor]

Bump. What about the Legions of Christ. What I am reading now is that powerful men have the direct ear of JP2. If that is the case, what does it mean. V's wife.

It would mean that noything has changed for at least 1700 years.

[Renatus]

. Ordination does not convey political wisdom or physical leadership qualities.

Never said it did.

[Catholicguy]

It doesn't matter what I think. As to a doctrine "changing," slavery, at one time viewed as at least morally neutral, was finally condemned. So, yes."

Thanks for the answer. I thought that was what your post indicated. Yours is not a Catholic position. Doctrine develops, it does not change.

[Domestic Church]

"I'm holding out on more info to pass judgement on the Legionaries founder. The libs HATE the LoC and will do anything to discredit it, even creating lies. I have yet to see any proof that the LoC founder is guilty, yet today nothing would surprise me..."

It would be just like the left to smear in such a vile manner. The LC and Opus Dei are the two strong opponents to Amchurch here...both have taken big media hits recently and while the Hanssen scandal probably didn't have any Amchurch underpinnings I just don't see it as pure coincidence.

[Saundra Duffy]

The deepest irony of all is that the cowardice of bishops was largely due to a desire to be treated well by the secular media. It is this misbegotten policy that has delivered us over to the derision of our enemies.

True, very true. And a well deserved "derision" it is.

[ventana]

You know I mean evil men. I cannot believe that Pope John Paul 2nd is being controlled by, and in cahoots with, evil men. That would deeply shake me. It would not eviscerate my love of the church, however. V's wife.

[ventana]

I believe Clinton had the goods on many a high ranking member of the Catholic Church in America which is a way of explaining the deafening silence on abortion and other evils. V's wife.

[sinkspur]

Yours is not a Catholic position. Doctrine develops, it does not change.

A distinction without a difference.

Tell me how slavery goes from being morally neutral to morally abhorrent without "changing."

Stop speaking Vaticanese.

[headsonpikes]

Some free advice for wayward shepherds...Go back to sheep, leave the kids alone!

[tiki]

While true, it wasn't "compassionate." </>I

LOL

A friend of mine had her children in Catholic school and was outraged at the sexual content of what they were teaching in grade school. She pulled them out and home-schooled them.

[Catholicguy]

Doctrine is an article of the Faith. In other words, it is something that is believed because God has revealed it. For example, the Trinity is a doctrine. There is one God in three persons, i.e., Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is an article of the Faith. This is the doctrine of the Trinity. Doctrines never change. For example, the Church will never teach contrary to what she has already taught about the Holy Trinity. This is because, by a gift of God, the Church is faithful to God's revelation. This differs from discipline which can change.

That is not "Vaticanese." That is from the Baltimore Catechism (American). You can read it for yourself at www.newadvent.com. Click on the Baltimore Catechism and immediately, one sees a link to "Doctrine."

[sinkspur]

This differs from discipline which can change.

I grant everything you say about revealed dogma. However, no one is arguing against the Trinity.

The fact is that the Church's moral doctrine on slavery has changed. At one time, slavery was tolerated by the Church; now, it is immoral. You say it developed; I say it changed. Whatever.

I don't really think one can classify a moral teaching as a "discipline."