Catholic Scandals: A Crisis for Celibacy?

Touchstone Magazine ^ | March/April, 2002 | Leon J. Podles, Ph. D.

[Travis McGee]

Ping.

[grumpster-dumpster]

Thanks for the PING.

[EODGUY]

Thanks for the ping, Patent.

We just returned from commemorating the most selfless act Jesus ever performed....dying for our sins so we can attaion eternal salvation.

Scripture was fulfilled when Judas, an apostle chosen by Jesus after prayer to God the Father, betrayed him. Judas was a man. Priests or ministers or laymen who commit criminal acts upon others are human and criminals. Those who use the criminal acts of a few Catholic clergy as a means to indict the entire Catholic Church are insincere opportunists. Our Church will survive, and I believe, become even stronger as we remove these Judas' from our Holy Mother the Church.

May all of you enjoy the blessings of our Risen Lord.

God bless and Happy Easter,

EODGUY

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Oh, yeah. None of these twelve men had wives. Peter did have a wife, and although you might like to wish her dead, there is no reason to believe that she was.

Peter was married at one time. The Apostles gave up everything to follow Christ, Matthew 19:29. Clement of Alexandria, ~150, 220 AD, wrote that Peter's wife (by the way what was her name?) suffered martyrdom.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

, = -

[DaveTesla]

The rock is what the church is built on.
Have you forgotten who started it?

[Straight Vermonter]

Consequently, men who are attracted to careers in the Church often have a weak sense of masculinity, have difficulty dealing with men and therefore prefer to deal mostly with women, and have personalities that tend to pick up a feminine savor; they are, in short, more or less effeminate.

I haven't read his book, but centuries? I can see decades (as in, since Vatican II). I realize it's anecdotal, but the priests I know who were ordained before VII are not effeminate.

I'm with you. Maybe it is just because I live in farm country but a lot of the priests I know could fill a hay wagon or say mass. Take your pick. This can't be the only place that has many priests in the Fr. Flanagan mold.

[Conservative til I die]

Don't some of the early post-Resurrection, pre-Gospel Traditions mention Peter's wife as part of the early Christian community?

[Conservative til I die]

Jesus would disagree with you, friend. But hey, what do I or Jesus know? Neither of us were Bahbel Chreestians.

[Conservative til I die]

Me and the Jesuit priests at my high school used to enjoy the hobby of sneaking out into hidden nooks and crannies of the school to share a good Marlboro or Camel during school hours.

[ELS]

patent, your point is well taken. I would like to learn more about the cultural customs you mentioned. I stated up front that my impression was anecdotal. I just think the author is painting with a very broad brush. I like to think (idealistically, I'll admit) most men pursue the priesthood because they were called by God and want to serve Him. Their personalities are irrelevant to the decision. It's about Him and His will, not them and their will.

[DaveTesla]

Dogma:
Among the early Fathers the usage was prevalent of designating as dogmas the doctrines and moral precepts
taught or promulgated by the Saviour or by the Apostles; and a distinction was sometimes made between Divine,
Apostolical, and ecclesiastical dogmas, according as a doctrine was conceived as having been taught by Christ, by
the Apostles, or as having been delivered to the faithful by the Church.

[DaveTesla]

Directions concerning Marriage
1 Corinthians 7.32
32. I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the
Lord; 33. but the married man is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please his wife, 34. and his interests
are divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin are anxious about the affairs of the Lord, so that they may be
holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about the affairs of the world, how to please her husband.
35. I say this for your own benefit, not to put any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and
unhindered devotion to the Lord.

[joathome]

Your point being?

If the church is allowing married priests right now, it's obviously not a dogma.

[joathome]

sigh There is nothing in scripture to indicate that men were FORBIDDEN to marry, and that is what we are talking about here. In fact, there are clear rules that if a man was married, he was to have only one wife, and his household was to be in order. Logically, there is NOTHING in scripture to support celibacy ONLY. Period.

[patent]

>>>I just think the author is painting with a very broad brush.

I agree, and I also believe that most men pursue the priesthood because of a calling by God. To me it was just instinctive that the most orthodox dioceses would have no vocations issues. It's nice to see that be proven, though I truly wish some of our more stubborn Bishops would get the point.

patent

[patent]

Dave,

Whether priests are allowed to marry or not is a discretionary thing. The Church has not ever said that it can't allow priests to marry, and in fact does allow certain priests to marry. Were this an infallible teaching it would need to be universal, that is apply to the entire Church. Contrast that with the idea of women priests. The Pope has said that the Church lacks the power to ordain women priests, but has said nothing of the sort re married priests.

I'm not advocating for married priests, I would prefer the system stay as it is, but its not unchangeable.

patent

[saradippity]

Fortunately,I can honestly say I never read that. I am Catholic and started reading responding to religious related threads a while back. Many non-Catholics would denigrate and ridicule and accuse the Church based solely on scripture. I decided that if reading scripture was important in order to make a point,I'd better start reading it more thoroughly.

I concentrated on the Four Gospels and to my surprise I found not one passage that supported the oft used argument against celibacy with Protestants, "all the apostles were married".In fact, I realized there is not one passage that clearly says any of them were married. I have pointed out over and over again that to have a mother-in-law,only meant that once Peter had a wife. I had a mother-in-law,20 years after my husband died. I merely state this often because those who frequently chastise us for being careless with scripture are themselves guilty of the same. The most any one could say is there is no proof that Jesus chose any married men as apostles.

[pray4liberty]

It was at least nice to hear someone speaking of the good parts of celibacy, especially at a time when it is under attack from many sides...

...from those who are totally forgetting what the opposite of celibacy accomplishes..mainly, fornication, sodomy, abortion, and various sexually-transmitted diseases, some incurable, others fatal.

Moral: misuse the sexual force and there will be a price to pay.

[PadreL]

I was celebrating at a funeral with a Methodist minister one time. Before we began, he said, "You Romans are lucky being celibate." I laughed and said that he was lucky. He then went on to say that it is not easy being married and a minister and that the divorce rate for clergy is about 50%.

Life is always better in the other pew.