Catholic Scandals: A Crisis for Celibacy?

Touchstone Magazine ^ | March/April, 2002 | Leon J. Podles, Ph. D.

[Taliesan]

Bump, bookmark.

[ventana]

If the kind of rigor required for a military approach is regularly needed within and throughout the history of the church, then, in view of history, a woman can be quite a distraction for a military leader. V's wife.

[ventana]

Thank you for a very intelligent article. V's wife.

[JesusIsLord]

You are right on the money!

[JesusIsLord]

If the rock is the church, then the rock has clay feet. The rock never was and never will be the church. The rock is Jesus!

[joathome]

Oh, yeah. None of these twelve men had wives. Peter did have a wife, and although you might like to wish her dead, there is no reason to believe that she was. How DO you reconcile scriptures that give requirements--a man of one wife.....etc. That doesn't mean he HAD to have one wife, but he was surely ALLOWED one wife.

[joathome]

"This is a Dogma of the Catholic Church."

NO! It is not dogma. It is practice that is subject to change. This has nothing to do with faith and morals. Please do some studying. Those who advocate for a married priesthood are not asking that dogma be changed, just the current long-standing practice. There are married priests in the Roman Catholic Church today.

[joathome]

I have been around many, many priests and Christian brothers. I spend holidays with Christian brothers. I can assure you that being celibate does not make one less "worldly minded". While a married man will devote his time to his wife and children, a single man can still find time to devote much of his time to worldly things--alcohol and gambling being just two. (Gambling is legal in south Louisiana.)

Don't read more into that than is written, either. My point is being single does not make one "heavenly and flock minded".

[Taliesan]

But as for your comments about mercy and compassion as being peculiarly feminine, I can't agree. The entire point of Christianity is that man is redeemed through unmerited grace. Paul makes quite clear that with the coming of the Kingdom, man's relationship to the Law is utterly changed. In the Kingdom, sin is wrong not because by the transgression of a moral code we can somehow offend the honor of God; it's wrong because by sinning we alienate ourselves from God and ultimately from life, in an act of existential suicide.

Nicely said.

[Romulus]

Don't read more into that than is written, either.

OK, but don't you either. There are plenty of married men who find ways to get into trouble. How often does marriage cure a bad man?

Those who call for a married clergy seem not to realise that they're calling not so much for the elimination of a source for trouble as the replacement of the old by an entirely new source of problems, which we have neither the experience nor the understanding to address. I'm sure you've known selfish, irresponsible people who thought marriage would fix their lives and make them happy. Did it?

As neocon points out elsewhere in this thread, a contributing factor to clerical abuses is laxness over the discipline of daily prayer, especially the Daily Office. Quite apart from its spiritual benefits, frequent prayer is time-consuming, not necessarily a bad thing. Why don't you ask your clerical friends about it?

[neocon]

But this is not the case.

I would characterize the content as "conservative Christian." It contributors are a mixture of orthodox Catholic, conservative Protestant, and Orthodox Christian writers, striving for some sort of ecumenism. Touchstone is an admirable effort, but C. S. Lewis' concept of "Mere Christianity" is necessarily merely Protestant. See the article by S. M. Hutchens in the New Oxford Review of January 2002. If they intend to be faithful to Lewis' ideas, then they must limit their discussion, though certainly not their participants, to that subset of authentic Christianity "on which we can all agree," or some such construction.

I think this is an idea best honored in the breach. My impression from a few readings is that Touchstone is already finding it necessary to venture outside the confines of "Mere Christianity," and that they will find that true ecumenism must lead them to something a good deal less "mere" and a great deal more authentic. I welcome that inevitability.

[cornelis]

a few readings is that Touchstone is already finding it necessary to venture outside the confines of "Mere Christianity

Agreed then. Also, there is a helpful distinction to be had between orthodoxy and ecumenicism.

[neocon]

there is a helpful distinction to be had between orthodoxy and ecumenicism

Very much so! Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm very anxious to see the wounds in the Body of Christ healed, which is the goal of ecumenism, but it can only be done with charity and intellectual honesty, or it will not last.

The fractioning of the universal Church has severely impaired the effectiveness of Christianity as a social force as well as a vessel for the salvation of souls. (The two go hand-in-hand, because social influence is a means of evangelization.) The early efforts were largely superficial and have failed, because doctrinal differences cannot simply be ignored or glossed-over. We're now faced with the extremely difficult task of reconciling the apparently unreconcilable, which means that some ideas will prevail and others will have to be abandoned. Few want to face that stubborn fact.

[neocon]

Martyria were frequently of centralised design

Thank you, Romulus. I think the "centralized design" is what led to think "Romanesque." I always learn a great deal from you.

[joathome]

I'm quite familiar with the divine office and the daily missal, for what it's worth. Have a good day.

[patent]

For the most part my presentation is a bullet point version of what you see here. I seriously doubt the words that would have accompanied the presentation and fleshed it out would have been as eloquent. I also spent a bit more time on the media circus we have now, and the various groups who’s agendas pushed this issue to where it is now, as I think it is very important to understand that.

Regardless, to be honest Askel, this article says it more completely then the power point presentation I have does. The power point thing would have gone well with someone there to explain what each bullet meant, but its kind of sketchy without that. I had meant to add text to round it out, but just haven’t had the time to really do a paper.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

Have a Happy Easter Everyone!

To you as well

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

true pedophilia is extremely rare which can lead to sexual relations with sexually mature but underage boys

OK, so now they are no longer children but sexually mature but underage Pull your pants leg up, it’s getting deep.

Are you saying you see no difference with raping a 5 year old child and having sex with a 17 year old boy or girl? I would regard both as wrong, but there is a bit of a difference between what the word child means and what a sexually mature but under the age of consent (18 or so years old, depending on where you are) boy means.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

...for centuries the churches of Western Christianity have been seen by both men and women as belonging to the feminine sphere of life, just like nursing, cooking, and the care of small children. Consequently, men who are attracted to careers in the Church often have a weak sense of masculinity, have difficulty dealing with men and therefore prefer to deal mostly with women, and have personalities that tend to pick up a feminine savor; they are, in short, more or less effeminate.

I haven't read his book, but centuries? I can see decades (as in, since Vatican II). I realize it's anecdotal, but the priests I know who were ordained before VII are not effeminate.

If I understand what he is referring to correctly, in many cultures it has long been a custom for the women and younger children to go to Church while the men and older boys relax outside or elsewhere. This is most certainly not a post V2 thing. I know many priests who were ordained before V2. Some are effeminate, some are not. I also know many post V2 priests. Some are effeminate, some are not.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

Bumping. Let me know if you want on or off the list. Click my screen name for a description.

patent