BATF Victim Gets Hundreds of His Guns Back

Keepandbeararms.com ^ | March 27, 2002 | Angel Shamaya

[Mulder]

bang

[donozark]

I recall this case being posted here shortly after it happened. I especially recall the mistreatment of the weapons involved. Those responsible should pay. And not with tax payer money...

[Wonder Warthog]

David Hardy rules!!!! I am sure that the anti-gunners and BATF stormtroopers have nightmares about him "getting on their case".

[Jolly Rodgers]

And yet we have people right here on the forum spouting: "What have you got to fear if you've got nothing to hide?" every time the government passes another infringement on our rights.

Well, here is a PRIME example of what we have to fear!

[jadimov]

...Those responsible should pay. And not with tax payer money...

How can we make them pay personally? Is that possible? Are there any legal precedents? I'm all for it if it's possible to do. What a great way put the "servant" back in public servant. If there is no precedent, this would be a great case with which to start one.

[basil]

Hi, Mulder!

I am convinced that Angel Shamaya and RBKA had a lot to do with getting this thing turned around. When you keep the light shinning on something, people will have a chance to see it. When enough people see it, the Feds begin to squirm.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Hell yes, they should pay. The members of the BATF should pay through loss of their jobs and forfeiture of their retirements. What a bunch of thugs.

[jadimov]

From where in the Constitution does Congress derive the power to regulate firearms (or alcohol or tobacco for that matter)? The only time arms are mentioned, is the amendment forbidding the government from doing exactly what BATF is now doing. I bet King George is laughing in his grave while President George rolls over in his.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

[Mulder]

Well, here is a PRIME example of what we have to fear!

Michel should consider himself lucky that he wasn't shot in the face by the feds, like the kid in Maryland was.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

That's right, the BATF are like cockroaches. When you turn on the light, they run for cover.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

How can we make them pay personally?

My first thought was for them to pay by losing their jobs and forfeiting their retirements. Jail wouldn't be a bad idea either. And don't make them stay in that minimum security golf course "detention center" either. Make them stay in a federal prison like Leavenworth.

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Michel should consider himself lucky that he wasn't shot in the face by the feds, like the kid in Maryland was.

Or shot in the back like Randy Weaver's kid.

[Libertarianize the GOP]

fyi

[Jolly Rodgers]

Michel should consider himself lucky that he wasn't shot in the face by the feds, like the kid in Maryland was.

It's not over yet and the boys in black have a history of getting even when made to look like the bungling murderous fools that they are.

[NotJustAnotherPrettyFace]

You betcha!

[CTY40]

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" was made famous by the KGB. What a striking similarity.

[mn_b_one]

I am glad to hear that this guy got his guns back. I hope he takes them to court for damages, and wins. I hate the BATF, the FBI and the US Marshalls. They are the first line of gorillas in the early stages of the Police State, eventually leading to the 2nd American Revolution. Good luck to this poor man who has paid taxes all his life to a government who would demonize him and kill him at the drop of a hat.

[the]

This article presents another great opportunity to link to:

WHEN THE BATF COMES A-CALLIN'

James H. Jeffries, III

"There is no wholly satisfactory substitute for brains, but silence does pretty well." --Anonymous

PROBABLYone of the least favorite events for any Federal Firearms Licensee (hereafter "FFL") is a visit from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (hereafter "BATF"). This can occur in one of at least six very different ways and your legal rights and recommended responses vary accordingly.

For purposes of the following discussion I will assume that you are a law-abiding licensed dealer or collector who tries to comply honestly with the federal firearms laws. If some of the discussion below seems excessively cautious, or even hostile to BATF, it is based on real world experience with an agency which has been found by Congress, by various federal judges and juries, by other federal and local law enforcement agencies, and even by some Presidents to be inept, indifferent to citizens' rights, and capable of the most outrageous abuses of the law.

BATF operates under the rationale of requiring you to comply with the law. I operate under the rationale of requiring BATF to comply with the law. I required this of BATF as a federal prosecutor for almost 30 years, and I require it as a private citizen and as a lawyer. You should require it as an FFL.

A non-licensee has no legal duty whatsoever to talk to or otherwise cooperate with a BATF agent (or any other governmental official). It is a sad commentary on our times and the state of our federal government (and especially BATF) that the appropriate legal advice from a defense lawyer to a non-licensee confronted by a federal or state law enforcement officer can be capsulized in a single sentence called RULE ONE: Silence is golden; or what part of "no" don't you understand? If you are an FFL, however, additional considerations come into play.

___________________

Click link above for the rest of this great article.

[Henchman]

Seems you are jumping to conclusions. Only one side of the case has been put forward. Let's see what happens in the "suit." ...then again if the plaintiff looses you will bitch about the judicial system. All that can be said with certainty is that there is a lot of room for improvement.