AMNESTY by BUSH - The Truth about Section 245(i)

March 19th, 2002 | Compiled by Sabertooth

[ATR]

If you want to accomplish something, then change the law bestowing citizenship on the progeny of illegals born here. Until you do that, your whistling in the wind.

An excellent suggestion, I'm glad you brought it up....

[Texasforever]

You know I've never said it's a blanket amnesty, all of your straw man arguments nothwithstanding.

That statement is a little hard to reconcile with this statement

President Bush's "No Blanket Amnesty" is a Clintonian promise in spirit, because it's an attempt to conceal his true goal, which is an Amnesty by another name (even more dishonesty) for millions of illegal aliens.

Now maybe you will stop the straw man debating techniques.

[Uncle Bill]

Illegal Immigration: Daschle urges amnesty for all illegal workers

Democrats hail Bush's immigrant-amnesty plan - The Washington Times

"President of the United States Wants To Grant Amnesty Up To 4 Million Illegal Aliens"

INS Agents Get Bonuses from INS Commissioner James W. Ziglar After 9/11 Gaffe

"Jim Ziglar is an experienced manager who will work diligently to reform the INS. He has strong relationships with Republicans and Democrats in the Congress and has worked in both the public and private sectors. His history of overseeing large organizations and tackling management challenges makes Jim an excellent choice as Commissioner of the INS," - George W. Bush

"If we can find a way to move illegal immigrants into legal channels, we would enable the border patrol to focus on the bad guys coming across the border rather than the people coming across to work."
James Ziglar (1-202-514-1900)

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SEARS ELECTS NATIONAL COUNCIL OF LA RAZA HEAD TO BOARD

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: June 7, 2001 -- SEARS ELECTS YZAGUIRRE TO BOARD

HOFFMAN ESTATES, Ill. - The board of directors of Sears, Roebuck and Co. today announced the election of Raul Yzaguirre, 61, president and chief executive officer of the National Council of LaRaza (NCLR), to membership on Sears board of, directors. His election increases the number of Sears directors to 11.

American Patrol has learned that Sears donated land in North Hollywood, CA, for a day labor center for illegal aliens.

Sears Elects Yzaguirre to Board

LISTEN TO AUDIO CLIP

[angkor]

Let me boil this down

And let me boil it down this way: as someone who has been involved in exactly this process since 1997, I can say with some authority that is categorically and morally wrong for some to enjoy the fruits of American residence at their own whim and fancy (merely due to border geography), while others must (and do) follow the letter of the law for both ethical and practical reasons (e.g., we were taught to respect the law of any nation in which we reside).

You do not seem to understand the ethical implications of allowing some to entirely evade the law, while others must follow it. And it certainly makes a mockery of all those who respect it, no more so than native American citizens.

Canadians have been booted from this country merely for making a mistake regarding our arcane immigration laws. But if one is savvy and brazen enough, he need only hide from the law (such as it is) and wait for the next amnesty.

You say this is intended to "help" only those were were caught in some bureaucratic SNAFU. That shows you do not know how to read INS language.

Frankly I'm getting tired of posting the same old stuff over and over again. But Miss Marple, you are wrong wrong wrong in your interpretation of both the specifics of 245(i) and about the motives of those who would benefit from it.

[ez]

Look, I had a major life change when I found that I agreed with the ACLU over flag-burning and disagreed with the R's. I'm not about to take KKK Byrd's side against GWB in this matter.

[Miss Marple]

I understand your point of view, but shooting this down will round up those illegals exactly how?

Personally, I am not reading this with your interpretation, but I won't tell you that you are wrong, wrong, wrong.

Maybe Byrd will block it after all, and you all can jump on his bandwagon. However, I will decline to do so.

[quimby]

How old are you? 10, 11 or 12?

Old enough to know this bill will pass and be signed into law very soon. Get over it, or get ready for a dem congress this fall and to say president gore in '04. Did you vote for perot ?

[Joe Hadenuf]

Now maybe you will stop the straw man debating techniques.

Debate? There is nothing to debate about this long massive invasion of millions. Nothing! What is the debate? With the equivalent of 10 major cities of illegal aliens in our country already, with our government allowing the equivalent of another major city a year of illegal aliens, what is the argument?

All this quibbling about people being offended because some of us that refuse to be party hacks and stay in line. Sorry, in real America, you and a few others here, are way outnumbered.

There are *millions* more of us in the Southwestern United States that are totally against this crippling illegal aliens invasion, in any form. Many times more than the few party hacks that are here on FR that support this President and this titanic invasion of illegal aliens.

Millions of us here have nothing left but contempt for both of the beltway parties, as they are directly responsible for incrementally destroying our constitution, our sovereignty, and our cherished freedoms. This is a fact.

This Republican President supports and encourages this invasion. Just like several of you folks here on the FR. This is becoming inordinately clear.

You are completely outnumber by average Americans that are sick and tired of our government dumping MILLIONS of criminal illegal aliens on us. You and several others here on the FR are way outnumber.

Want proof? Several years ago, the people of the great state of California held a FREE election and voted 3 to 1 in favor of proposition 187 which would have put a stop to much of the tax paid support of illegal aliens and the federal government stepped in and burned our ballots and declared our election unconstitutional.

We are sick and tired of politicians that do nothing about this massive threat to our nation. And that includes President Bush.

Unlike Texas, the people of California had enough guts to do something about this invasion. We had enough guts to hold an election and win it, while being called racist, bigots, and the other usual names. We won. But our government turned around and kicked us in the teeth and declared our election unconstitutional and void. Millions of us wont ever forget this.

You can sit there in Texas and tell us all about this amnesty and how it isn't really amnesty, but something else. You keep showing up on these immigration threads and attempt to minimize this titanic invasion of millions, and tell us how we are all just misinterpreting President Bush etc.

This invasion is totally defenseless. But you go ahead now, and continue to defend it and debate it.

[Howlin]

Now maybe you will stop the straw man debating techniques.

Don't bet on it. Look at his title for this very thread.

[Howlin]

Ping me when you get an answer to that post. I've been waiting for weeks for somebody to explain to me HOW they plan to do this.

[Regulator]

Here's a post from someone doing something about it:

Steeleman on the Border

Unlike the "Big Hat, No Cattle" types on here from a certain state where big talk like "plenty hot" coupled with abject surrender in the face of a foreign invasion is considered "tough", this guy is actually defending his property, his country, his family and his honor - even against his own government.

[angkor]

shooting this down will round up those illegals exactly how?

Passing it will certainly show comfort to 200,000 (1,000,000?) illegal alien scofflaws.

How will it "round up" the remaining 4 to 10 million?

Please be specific rather than idealistic. What new provisions and resources have been added to the INS mandate to prevent illegal immigration? (A clue: zero, nada, nothing)

I'm sorry, you remain wrong^3.

[Miss Marple]

You realize, don't you, that Mexico recognizes dual citizenship? Many of those 18 million are US citizens.

Also, no one is going to consider a $5.00 fine as not giving amnesty. We are not dealing with Clinton, so give it a rest.

[Dave S]

You actuall have a good point there. I never though of it but you're right. We don't have enough people to support the upcoming retirement explosion so lets let everyone and their cousins in to fill the gap. Is that the plan?

If you allow me to be real cynical, there are three major things that can be done to ensure the retirement of baby boomers.

1. Raise Social Security Taxes on the whipper snappers. :_)

2. Lower payments to us geisers.

3. Increase the number of people paying into the Social Security system.

Neither option #1 or #2 seem very palatable. That leaves option #3. Unfortunately if you know anything about demographics you know that everyone thats going to pay social security taxes to support baby boomers is already born. Its too late to build up the birth rates that the zero population folks drove down in the 70's. That leaves immigration as a source of new workers in this country unless we are goign to make people work longer or drive more women and teens into the workplace.

While many immigrants will start at the bottom they will move up some over twenty years. Additionally their kids will hold even better jobs.

[Miss Marple]

By going to the INS Web Site (www.ins.gov) a cursory examination showed me that the Immigration Service has just signed an agreement with the Department of Defense to get assistance at both the northern and souhern borders, that the INS Commisioner has ordered more new agents hired (applications available on line), the new regulations require background checks on ALL immigrants, and that the goal is to gain control of immigration through a variety of measures.

I would suggest that before you say nothing has been done, you visit the web site. The complete Congressional testimony of the Commisioner is on there, as well as all sorts of information. It appears to me they are doing a lot, including raising fees on some services.

So, may I say, you are wrong.

[Dave S]

Can you tell me what YOU THINK "entered without inspection" MEANS?

Yes, if you look on the INS website they list something like four different areas in which non-citizens are questioned when they interview the country. One is a medical history,one has to do with reason for being in the country, another I think has to do with terrorism, etc. I dont recall exactly what they are and I have already wasted too much time here given that your mind is made up.

You neglect to point out in that INS document that you are quoting is from last year. What they voted on is no different than what was law last year other than the dates which is all Sabretooth posts.

Additionally, that document also lists two or three other things beyond inspection that could make 245(i) of possible interest to someone attempting to change their status. Also the statement doesnt guarantee that you will be given a green card. It just allows you to be considered rather than having to leave the country and wait from three to ten years to apply.

You also neglect to point out that those receiving this "amnesty" had to have their application for change of status in several months ago and they have to be otherwise elligible for change of status. No terrorists or people with criminal backgrounds need apply.

Whats your problem with this other than Tancredo and his ilk says this is going to cause the hordes of mongrols to totally wipe out Civilization as we know it?

[janetgreen]

I've been waiting for weeks for somebody to explain to me HOW they plan to do this.

In California it would send a few million of them home if social services benefits were cut off, including full medical care (even prenatal), free schooling for their kids, discounted college fees, assisted housing, welfare, food stamps, etc. That might even discourage a few million more from coming in the first place. It also would help if sanctions were actually imposed upon companies who hire them, according to the laws that were passed years ago. It also might help if the border was protected and existing immigration laws were enforced. That might do it.