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15 girls die as zealots 'drive them into blaze' [Saudi Arabia]
The Telegraph (UK) ^ | 03/15/2002

Posted on 03/14/2002 4:41:08 PM PST by dighton

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To: dighton
GRRR-how can people pervert themsleves to allow young girls to be burned to death?!?
121 posted on 03/15/2002 5:38:42 AM PST by 91B
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To: dighton
"Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice"????

Does a lot of good for the dead, doesn't it?
The persons responsible ought to have their heads squeezed in a vice until their virtue runs all over the floor...
Az

122 posted on 03/15/2002 5:44:40 AM PST by azhenfud
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To: dighton
How tragically ironic. Girls forced to live a life of hell are forced to stay and die in a hellish inferno because they weren't properly dressed to escape back into the hellish environment they have to live in.
123 posted on 03/15/2002 5:50:17 AM PST by TADSLOS
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To: WindRiverShoshoni
So what do I tell my correspondent who asks "Why are people on Free Republic interested in fires in schools?"

You could tell your correspondent that we're simply horrified at the thought of LITTLE GIRLS IN TERROR being prevented from leaving a burning building, especially if there is a possibility that LITTLE BOYS in the same situation might not have met the same fate.

You could tell your correspondent that this certainly isn't the first time that we've discussed a "situation" in a school, especially when there is loss of life. You could inform your correspondent that we discuss many news subjects here. And you could ask him why he is surprised that we would be interested in a story as horrific as this one. In other words, you could ask him why we shouldn't be interested in fires at schools, and why we shouldn't want more information. If he can direct us to any articles from the day it happened, instead of from the aftermath, I'd be most grateful to receive them. I'd be particularly grateful for any with pictures that show the damage to the building, as is most common here. Do they exist?

Or, you could tell him that I'm from New York and I'm simply curious to see how history replays itself. You see, they've just had their own version of the Triangle Shirtwaist fire--young women were trapped between a fire and a locked door by the MEN WHO WERE IN CHARGE OF THEM. The ramifications of that fire were felt for decades here. I wonder if that will be the case in Saudi Arabia.

Or you could tell your friend whatever you wish about us. I'm sure that's what you will do.

124 posted on 03/15/2002 5:50:36 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: WindRiverShoshoni
You can tell your *correspondent* that the light is beginning to shine on the *Kingdom*. You can tell him that the more we learn about Wahabi Muslim LAW, the more we understand why Saudi Arabia funded terrorists and murderers all over the world, including the ones who hit the Trade Towers and the Pentagon. You can TELL him that we are watching every little thing and listening at their walls. And you can tell them that we damn well don't like what we see and hear.
As for you, there just aren't enough words, and if there were, they would be unprintable.
125 posted on 03/15/2002 5:51:44 AM PST by Nix 2
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To: BenR2
Are you saying that David "I am the Messiah" Koresh and Randy "White is Right" Weaver are fundamentalist Christians?
126 posted on 03/15/2002 5:57:12 AM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: WindRiverShoshoni
I also don't see what good fire drills are going to do, if there are 700 students and one exit. I am very suspicious of the descriptions of panic versus the descriptions of the fire in some of the articles. There's no reason to panic over a small fire in the ceiling of a stairwell--but there's every reason to panic if that small fire is spreading faster than you can get away from it. The people at the back of the line start pushing forward, and people ahead of them get pushed to the ground and trampled. It's happened here, in indoor fires with many people and inadequate means of escape.
127 posted on 03/15/2002 5:59:28 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: dighton
A relevant koan:

Once upon a time, there were two monks who went on a pilgrimage across the country together. One day, they came to a river bank and saw a beautiful girl who was unable to cross the river.

Seeing her difficulty, the elder monk volunteered to carry her across the river on his back while the younger one looked on in consternation.

When the sun went down, the monks came upon a dilapidated shack and decided to stay there for the night. The elder monk quickly fell asleep while the younger one twisted around, unable to calm his mind. Finally, he woke up the elder monk and reprimanded him for what happened during the day, "As monks, we are supposed to keep away from women. I am really ashamed and troubled by what you did today!"

The elder monk looked at his friend and a smile broke up on his face, "Oh, so that has been bothering you! Brother, I have left the girl behind by the river bank, why are you still carrying her around?"


128 posted on 03/15/2002 6:01:26 AM PST by ctdonath2
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To: dighton
MATTHEW 7:1-5:

"Judge not, that ye be not judged.
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,
but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull the mote out of thine eye;
and behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite,
first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast the mote out of thy brother's eye...."

".... Between the days of February 28, 1993 and April 19th, 1993, approximately 80 men, women, and children living peacefully in their home near Waco, Texas, were killed by the combined efforts of the US Defense Department and other government paramilitary units: the US Treasury Department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The incident also claimed the lives of four ATF agents.

The civilians lived in a religious community called the Mt. Carmel Center. They were called Branch Davidians.

The incident began with a military-style raid on February 28, complete with helicopter gunships firing down upon the women's and children's quarters. Then followed a long siege. On April 19, the US government sent tanks to demolish and gas the building where the people lived. The government said they decided to gas the Davidians because they were concerned about the sanitary conditions in the house, because they were afraid one of the Davidians, David Koresh, was spanking babies, and because the FBI agents were getting tired.

The tanks tore big holes in the walls, drove into the house, and knocked down whole sections of the building. The government said they were only making holes in the building so they could get the gas in, and let the people out. But no Davidians came out.

A fire broke out as the tanks were driving about. The fire became an inferno, lasted 40 minutes and burned the house to the ground. As they watched the inferno on TV, many wondered why they could not see Davidians escaping the burning building. Seventy five people, including 33 women, children, and babies, are said to have perished in the flames......"

(Oh, that old thing. Anyway, Chuckie Schumer said it was all OK because Koresh was offending the prevailing moral standards of our great Nation.)

129 posted on 03/15/2002 6:01:32 AM PST by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: WindRiverShoshoni
I'm not really interested in fires at schools but...if you have an inside link...perhaps you can tell me the fate of the Ethiopian Christian that was taken from Jeddah to Mecca and refused the deportation offered to the other Christians arrested for the unbelievably heinous crime of worshipping Christ, in their own homes,in Jeddah during the summer. The office of Bandar Bin Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz is mute on the subject.
130 posted on 03/15/2002 6:03:58 AM PST by constitutiongirl
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Gee, if none of us had ever expressed outrage or curiosity over Waco, you MIGHT have had a point.
131 posted on 03/15/2002 6:06:39 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: neutrino
I have a better idea. May God smite them.

And may the instrument He uses be a nuclear device delivered by a B-52.

132 posted on 03/15/2002 6:09:30 AM PST by Euro-American Scum
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To: ctdonath2
A relevant koan:

Relevant indeed. Also relevant, even Christ healed on the Sabbath Day.

133 posted on 03/15/2002 6:10:41 AM PST by Nix 2
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To: hellinahandcart
What a good little citizen you are. You expressed your outrage. Now roll over and go back to sleep and dream of all those dirty, nasty foreigners we're going to civilize--one way or the other.

(Oh, and not to seem too rude--but what exactly did we do to show our outrage at the ghastly occurence at WACO?)

Never mind LET"S ROLL!!!

Roll where?

ANYWHERE!!! As long as it's NOT home!!!

134 posted on 03/15/2002 6:12:46 AM PST by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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Comment #135 Removed by Moderator

To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
See post # 131.

The Waco fiasco was reported live, was the subject of numerous investigations, etc. Justice may not have been done in the courts, but the truth is out there waiting for history.

Also, Waco represents an abberation, not a policy.

I happen to think that societies are separated by the frequency of such events. No government has ever been free of sin. The question is how free are we to criticise.

136 posted on 03/15/2002 6:14:12 AM PST by js1138
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
Oh yes. And none of us liked that either. It was an outrage. But it doesn't make this any less an outrage. You sound like Clinton with the everyone does it crap. Everyone doesn't do it, and those who do are worth all the scorn we can throw at them. We didn't excuse Waco and many of us are still trying to find a measure of justice. There will be NONE in the *Kingdom*. And the outrage will be forcibly silenced as if it never happened.
How so very odd you would single out Chucky Cheese when there were so many; Reno, BATF, et al., with Clinton at the helm giving the final order. Very odd indeed.
137 posted on 03/15/2002 6:17:52 AM PST by Nix 2
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
No offense, but...your last post to me didn't make a whole lot of sense. Of course, you're posting from the Righteous Plane, so there might have been a glitch in the transmission.
138 posted on 03/15/2002 6:23:32 AM PST by hellinahandcart
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To: dighton
We are truly in the twilight zone...
In a sane world, the normal human beings from other countries would attack and kill these savages.

In a PC world, the best we can hope for is that they keep this neanderthal religion to themselves.

139 posted on 03/15/2002 6:25:07 AM PST by Publius6961
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To: js1138
"...The Waco fiasco was reported live, was the subject of numerous investigations, etc. Justice may not have been done in the courts, but the truth is out there waiting for history...."

Yeah. That's what I thought we did. Would you care to wager that the Saudis will also express outrage and subject the horrid incident to numerous investigations?

But there's no time to dig up all that icky stuff. We're too busy, not only plucking the motes out of eyes everywhere on the planet, but opening military bases (in how many countires is it now? 200? 300?); arming governments and groups everywhere on the planet--if they're on our side they're "freedom fighters"; if not, they're "terrorists"; funding government bureaucrats and "NGO"s (ha, ha, ha--if they can't take a joke...) everywhere on the planet.

"...Let the People think they govern and they will be governed..." --- William Penn

140 posted on 03/15/2002 6:30:19 AM PST by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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