Posted on 02/25/2002 11:01:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
| FreeChoice Position. | Scripture | Implication | Calvinist Objection | Calvinist Implication |
| 1. - - God elects only on the basis of foreseen faith and condemns only on the basis of resistance to grace. | John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined Joshua 24:15 Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve...But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord ." Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. |
People go to heaven or hell based on their own choices for or against Christ. God foreknew their choice. | U - - Unconditional Election means that God has elected for His own glory, in accordance with His own will and without regard for the merit of those elected, some for salvation and some to be left in their sins. | God chooses whether or not any individual will be saved. He chooses based on his own reasons which he has not revealed. |
| 2. - - Christ provided a universal opportunity by dying for all men and for every man such that ALL those who turn to him as true repentant believers are saved. | 1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Acts 17:25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. |
The opportunity for Salvation is available to everyone. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sin. Everyone is allowed to come to Christ. | L - - Limited Atonement means that Christ died specifically and only for the sins of those who would ever truly believe in Him.. | Christ's sacrifice was intended only for those who were chosen ahead of time for salvation. Everyone is not allowed to come to Christ. |
| 3. - - - In accordance with the foreplanning of God, man was created with the ability to resist Divine Grace | Acts 7:51"You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! 52Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him-- Luke 13:32,34 - "Jesus replied,...34"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! |
In the same way humanity has been endowed with the capacity to say "yes" to God, it has also been endowed with the capacity to resist, to say "no," to God's offer of the gospel. | I - - Irresistible Grace means that the elect are incapable of resisting the Holy Spirit's inward call to repentance and salvation | Those God chose for salvation are unable to say "no" to salvation due to God's overpowering them with his attractiveness. (Neither are the non-chosen able to say "yes." God never attempts to attract them.) |
BTW - Where's the part where it says "God chose Ward Smythe to be a Wesleyan?" ;-)
So I am posting this to him as well
We both went overboard yesterday..we were very busy talking past each other.
I am sorry Ward, it was never my intent to hurt you. Like you I just dig in my heels..that can make for some hard hitting discussion..Like both of you I worry about souls first!
Hows that Pastor? There is a ditto to you
My ditto has to do with doc. Do you think he/she will play nice? Bygones and all that are fine, but I really don't want any more satanic influence accusations. What do you think? I've heard that the only way he/she knows how to play is outside the rules, full contact.
Thanks RnMomof7. Let me break our self-imposed "don't post to me" rule and offer my apologies directly to you as well.
Be it blessing or curse, we seem to know how to push each other's buttons.
Quite frankly, maybe you and I should blame everyone else for leaving us in here "alone" yesterday afternoon!
I appreciate your gracious response and accept your apology as I hope you accept mine.
On the "70x7" scale, I figure I've got about 485 more times to offend you before I really get into trouble. Not that I want to do that, and not that I hope you're keeping score!
I'd better stop before someone suggests we all sing "Kum Bah Yah." ;-)
Your (far from perfection) Brother in Christ,
Ward
You are RIGHT it is their fault
Good thought Ward *grin*
God Bless
We'll forgive you, but we think you should buy us lunch.
We'll forgive you, but we think you should buy us lunch.
Psssssss Ward what did HE do? Wait don't answer till after lunch:>)
Shocked! Shocked I tell you!
A Calvinist doesn't know??????
He ALLOWED it to happen by NOT ACTING!
Oh wait, is this a trap?!?
When I am being served I try to see the name tag..when the meal is brought I tell the waiter that we are about to say grace and ask if there is anything that they would like prayer for..the reactions are priceless...usually a big smile..and a "wait a minute..let me see" followed by some prayer need. I have heard some serious needs guys..this is a hurting world.
So I would not want them to think Christians are cheap..a good tip follows.. (Plus a prayer card if I have one on me that shows Jesus holding a man in contempory clothing with a mallet in his hand)
So a BIG tip is in order..
Not me. Once cheap, always cheap.
Actually, I've not asked for prayer needs, but am very aware of the fact that we're seen praying. I let that show in the tip.
(And I love that picture on your prayer card)
Actually, he cautioned me Saturday night.
I chose to ignore him...
I would, but I love you guys too much.
Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
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