Posted on 02/18/2002 8:54:15 PM PST by rwfromkansas
Bobby please study all of scripture and use God's Word to define God's Word. May you have the Holy Spirit teaching you and not yourself leading the way. The power, glory and majesty of God is truly when God is glorified and not man.
WhoSoEverWill
Naturally he could at anytime. The reason he doesn't is that only those pre-destined are being called now. They are to be kings and priests in the millenial kingdom. The rest are called at the end of the thousand years.
Thanks for the truth!
Dr. McGee left the Presbyterian Church (now, PC-USA) many years ago due to its swing away from adherance to belief in the truth and authority and priority of the Bible as The Word of God.
But he talks about predestination in his Bible studies when that subject is encountered in different parts of the Bible such as in Ephesians 1: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world that we should be holy and without blame before him in love, having predestined us to adoption as children by Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will In whom we also have obtained an inheritance being predestined according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will." and in Romans 8:28-30:
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreoever, whom He did prestinate, them He also called; and whom He called, them He also justified, them He also glorified."
In the next post I would just like to put in a few words from Dr. McGee and if his input has been given before, I apologize for the repeat. He is not your "theologian" of the like of Calvin - but he is/was a Bible teacher of great impact in this century because his radio Bible teaching ministry has reached thousands - perhaps millions - around the world and continues to do so today.
Dr. McGee quotes Henry Ward Beecher who said: "The "elect" are the 'whosoever wills' and the non-elect are the 'whosoever won't's'."
Dr. McGee goes on to say - It is all according to HIS purpose.
Dr. McGee also quotes a great theologian of the past named Simeon who said there were three reasons why he preached on the doctrine of election:
"It laid the axe at the root of pride, presumption, and despair."
Dr. McGee says, "My friend, there is no place for human pride in the doctrine of election. It is God's work, His wisdom, and His purpose that is being carried out."
He goes on to talk about Romans 8:29 - saying that verse starts with "for" which refers back to Romans 8:28 - talking about "them that love God, who are the called according to His purpose."
Dr. McGee says: " 'For' refers back to verse 28 to remind us that this is not talking about anybody being elected to be LOST, but he is speaking of "the called", the predestined ones.
Predestination never has any reference to the lost! You will never find it used in connection with them (the lost). If you ever hear someone talk about being predestined to be lost, you know that he is not being scriptural.
Predestination means that, when God saves you, He is going to see you through. Whom He foreknew, He predestinated, and whom He predestinated, He called, and whom He called, He justified, and whom he justified, He glorified. In other words this amazing section is on sanctification yet Paul does not even mention being sancitified. Why? Because sanctification is the work of God in the heart and life of the believer. This is God's eternal purpose. It just simply means this:
When the Lord - who is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep, the Good Shepherd of the Sheep, and Chief Shepherd of the Sheep - starts out with one hundred sheep, He's going to come home with one hundred sheep; He will not lose one of them!
Dr. McGee puts it like this (in his personal way of doing so) - and I am paraphrasing him:
You remember the story our Lord gave recorded in Luke 15 about the good shepherd (Jesus Christ, God the Son) who goes after the one lost sheep.
You would think He might say - "Well, let him go, we've got 99 of them safe in the fold. That's a good percentage." But our Good shepherd is not satisfied with 99 out of 100. If He justifies 100 sheep, He's going to glorify 100 sheep. "
"Someday, He will be counting them in - "One, two, three, four....ninety-seven, ninety-eight, ninety-nine- where in the world is Vernon McGee? Well, it looks like he didn't make it. We'll let him go because a great many people didn't think he was going to make it anyway."
"My friend, thank God, He won't let McGee - or any of those whom He has foreknown, predestinated, called and justified NOT be glorified. That Shepherd is going after him! The doctrine of election means that the Lord will be coming home with all 100 sheep!
This is not a frightful doctrine - it is a wonderful doctrine! It means that Vernon McGee's going to be there; and it means you are going to be there, my friend, if you have trusted Christ. This is a most comforting doctrine in these uncertain days in which we live."
End of McGee snippet. Chew on that.
Oh, I don't dismiss you, I understand you:
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. - I Corinthians 1:18
It hasn't gone unanswered, it is just that you don't like the answer.
The elect "want" to please God, they love Him and choose, by their free-will, to glorify His name and keep His commandments. The unregenerate don't "want" to please God, thus they confuse sin with pleasure, and lead dissipating lives chasing after their own self-interests.
It does matter what you do.
1. Does God have free will? Yes.
2. Are we made in His image? Yes.
Now, why would you attribute to man a free-will that God doesn't possess? In that, I mean, why would you think that man could possess a free-will to do that which he doesn't want to do, and which he is incapable of doing?
Can God sin? No, and He doesn't want to.
Can the unregenerate man please God? No, and he doesn't want to.
The unregenerate man is free to do exactly as he wants.
Kind of hard to reconcile with Jesus' own words:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. - Matthew 5:17,18
That assumes that one believes in the concept of "toal Depravity" which I do not.
Only when Our heart has been changed by His grace can we hear and respond to the gospel.
Sorry, but I still believe that hearing the Gospel can make someone want to change their heart. It worked for me.
It think you can piecemeal quote any Scripture you want to prove almost anything. Obviously, I don't accept the author's interpretations.
However, he is one of ours, and we are quite proud of him, just as we are proud of C.H. Spurgeon.
Yes, thank you. Augustine introduced some new concepts into Christian thought that the Eastern Church still rejects. Luther and Calvin introduced so many more man-made ideas that I don't consider them reliable sources.
I'm sure many people find this topic quite interesting. However, I believe that such discussions invariably generate much heat and zero light so please allow me to withdraw at this time. Thank you.
Are you sure that it wasn't the Holy Spirit who changed your heart? The Bible is clear that it is God who changes hearts. And the Bible is clear the the gospel will be foolishness to you until your heart has been changed:
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.Chew on that verse...
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