Posted on 01/20/2002 8:45:33 AM PST by Demidog
Only blind dogma could at this date see Israel as something good for the Jewish people. Established as a so-called safe haven it has consistently over the past five decades been the most dangerous place on the face of the earth for a Jew to live. It has been the source of tens of thousands of Jewish deaths, of families torn apart and has left a trail of grieving widows, orphans and friends in its wake.
Remarkable indeed, in the number and variety of distortions of facts and history.
Also remarkable in its understanding (or lack thereof) of the Muslim/Arab mentality. What is the point of this speech?
That if the Jews acquiesce to living as second class citizens in an all-Islamic Midde East everyone will be happy?
Are we talking insanity here? or just old fashioned senility? What?
Aliyah up to the Arab Conquest
During the time of the Second Temple, there were many immigrants to Eretz Yisrael. Aliyah, mainly of scholars from Babylon, did not cease after the destruction of the Second Temple (70 C.E.). This flow of aliyah ended in 520 when Mar Zutra, descendant of the exilarch in Babylon, settled in Tiberias and was appointed head of the Academy.
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Now this was LONG before any Hertzl, long before any *Zionist* movement, so there is his great lie which makes everything else a lie.
To take his claim that the Torah explicitly forbids a mass aliyah is like saying the sun revolves around the earth. To say that Zionism causes us to forsake our religion and our faith is an insult to any Jew of faith. The man is speaking to individuals who not only are not Jewish, but like most people, have no concept of Judaism except what these derelicts preach...which in ITSELF is forbidden by Torah Law and Mosaic Law.
So you have a man who breaks all the rules of Torah Law telling others that Aliyah is against Torah Law.
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From the Arab Conquest to the Ottoman Conquest
There is little information on aliyah in the next few centuries, the period of the Muslim Conquest (636 - 638). In the 11th century, important arrivals included Solomon ben Judah, from Morocco, head of the Academy in Jerusalem and Ramleh; and the Nasi Daniel beb. Azariah, a scion of the exilarchs of Babylon. In the late 12th century, more Jews from North Africa arrived as a result of the persecutions there.
Persecutions of Jews in Europe also contributed to aliyah. The most important immigration of this wave was that of the "300 French and English rabbis" who went to Eretz Yisrael in 1210-1211. In about 1260, there were more olim from these countries. The most important aliyah in this century was that of Nahmanides in 1267. Since his arrival, settlement is said to have been continuous in Jerusalem.
In the late 13th century, aliyah ceased as a result of the fierce battles between the Crusaders and the Muslims. In the 14th century Jews came from Spain and Germany. A number of Italian Jews arrived in Eretz Yisrael in the 15th century and made their mark on the Jewish community. Immigrants from Mesopotamia, Persia, India, China, Yemen, and North Africa are also mentioned in this century.
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So, we've gotten to the 15th century all without Hertzl. All without losing the faith, because it is the FAITH that Israel is HOME that guides Aliyah. Until you understand that, you will never understand Aliyah. It has nothing to do with politics and EVERYTHING to do with faith.
There have been many more Aliyahs since those days, many more before Hertzl and many after. It will continue because ISRAEL is where the Moschiach will arrive. That is the faith. That is the reason. And Israel will be there when the time comes.
My friends, I have been there time and time again as Neturei Karta International has visited Palestinian and Islamic organizations and I have been greeted with extraordinary warmth and brotherly concern...
No doubt, as useful idiots always are; until they cease being useful. Who is this delusional character? If a Muslim set out to impersonate a Jew who believes that Islam is a friendly warm and fuzzy culture, I can't think of a better propaganda job than this clown is doing.
LOL.
You want to review the Torah? Why change the subject from the essence of the problem: ISLAM
Pick any positive statement about islam in this article, and historical facts and current behavior will prove the opposite.
Every single positive statement.
I am unaware this is what he has claimed. Where did he say that it would be against the Torah for Jews to live in that region?
Which ones? Or am I simply to take your word for it that this is true even though you haven't been speicifc?
Other than the fact that namecalling is the recourse of the intellectual disarmed, I can't think of a single reason.
Bigotry? pointing out a murderer is bigotry?
I always assumed that doublespeak would be the exclusive province of government in a topsy turvy satirical world, but it looks like individuals have devolved into nonsense too. Interesting.
Didn't you read your own article?
I agree. That was in fact my point.
Chew on this, dog:
In the 1890s, less than 5% of the Holy Land ’s population was Jewish, yet, Theodore Herzl had the nerve to describe his movement as that of “a people without a land for a land without a people.”
If there were 20 people in all of Palestine then, and one Jew, that would make the statement true, but meaningless.
The Arab population was a kaleidoscope then constantly shifting through the area. The intended inference is obvious and self serving in the circular argument sort of way.
Am I to take a Muslim/Arab propagandist's word for it, just because he says so? What is his source of that figure? Is that relevant in any way, do you think? Muslims are notorious for making up "facts".
And then you immediately proceed to call the disagreement "bigotry"...
Hmmmmmmmm.
You are now saying his statements are correct (where you were claiming they were untrue and historically incorrect) but must be disregarded because he is supposedly a Muslim/Arab propagandist?
Martin Luther King Jr. would have called this man an anti-Semite. In fact MLK Jr. claimed that anyone who disagreed with the validity of Zionism was an anti-Semite. That would have to include God himself if the facts about the Talmud and Torah as this rabbi asserts are true.
When I first came to Israel I had the unfortunate experience of sitting in jail during Passover with quite a few members of Neturei Karta. (There was a demonstration and I was inadvertently rounded up.) I got to know their views upfront and very close. I disassociated myself from them very quickly. Like any movement they have points in which they are correct, but they then use those few points to totally distort. G-d forgive me for making this comparison, but sometimes I feel like they are our Taliban and Al-Qeda. They are perverted extremists. While direct murder is not on their agenda, since murder is just not part of Jewish tradition, however I do blame them for killing Jews inadvertently by give aid and comfort to our active enemy.
They are the opposite side of a poisonous coin that unfortunately exists in Israel. Just after the 6 day war I met a guy who was a scout in the Negev. He grew up on a SHomer Hatzair Kibbutz where Marxism supplanted Judaism. He knew absolutley nothing about Judaism and called himself an Israeli not a Jew. Despite all the miracles during the war, he said that there was one major tragedy. I said I didn't recall one. He responded,"it was a tragedy that Jordanian bombers weren't able to blast to hell Meah Shearim and Beit Yisroel (the neighborhoods where almost all Neturei Karta live)." The Neturei Karta member would have responded that it was a pity that the SYrians weren't able to destroy his kibbutz. Both attitudes are the extreme of the extreme, and to our shame they exist. G-d only knows how much we try actively and through prayer to unite all Jews.
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