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Addicted to the Drug War
Ludwig von Mises Institute ^ | December 28, 2001 | Ilana Mercer

Posted on 12/30/2001 1:25:13 AM PST by NoCurrentFreeperByThatName

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To: Roscoe
No, they did not "prohibit" untaxed whiskey, they levied a tax on whiskey and prosecuted those who were not paying the tax. Not the same as prohibition at all.

Weasel words there Roscoe, weasel words. You would do Bill Clinton proud.

681 posted on 01/01/2002 12:07:48 AM PST by AKbear
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To: AKbear
Those are the words of James Madison in Federalist Paper #42.

Which says nothing remotely like the contention that the regulatory and taxation powers of Congress would not encompass the power to prohibit.

Congress prohibited the sale of untaxed whiskey when George Washington was President.

682 posted on 01/01/2002 12:09:58 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Still begging the question?

Yep, until you answer it or admit that the federal government, in accordance with the Constitution, cannot prohibit a thing.

Where is it enumerated that the federal government may prohibit a thing? Not regulate, not tax, prohibit.

Remember, Roscoe. Limited and enumerated powers.

683 posted on 01/01/2002 12:10:16 AM PST by AKbear
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To: Cultural Jihad
No, he is not forced to rob. However, my wife is forced to be a victim, as am I. And no where do I mention any subsidies for his habit. The cost of producing maintainance doses of heroin is miniscule, about two dollars a day, and numerous studies have shown that addicts live normal productive lives when able to obtain legally either methadone or heroin. They can and do hold full time jobs, raise normal children, and engage in normal, everyday activities. It is the illegal nature of the drug that turns them into potential robbers and killers, and my wife and I into fearful potential victims because as a dentist she is known to possess narcotics on her premises. You can argue all you want, but basically, you are just ignorant.

I have spent my life in this field. Legalization of drugs would reduce the crime rate in America by at least 50%; many estimate as much as 80%. You simply have no idea how the WOD has affected this society, and are either making money from the WOD and will therefore never change your opinion, or are a Christian who doesn't understand the Gospel, or are just plain ignorant. You never rebut the arguments put forth by your opponents. You make up straw men like the subsidies issue and then knock them down, and act like you have accomplished something. Only one legitimate argument exists for non-legalization--that it would increase consumption. If you can successfully make that argument, then there might be something to discuss, although the costs of the WOD might still be too great. However, consumption of hard drugs has not gone up in countries where it has been legalized or "ignored." Rather, people have more readily turned to treatment as they were removed from the underworld since they could obtain their drug at a reasonable price and therefore hold down normal fulltime jobs and begin to regain their self-respect. Soon, meeting and falling in love, etc. , they want to be clean so that they can move on, build families, etc. But you are too narrow minded and full of hate to read such studies. One has to love the truth, and freedom, and one's country, and one's fellow man, in order to go so far as to search out and find the real facts about the WOD. One so flippant as you, to throw out such accusations as that I am arguing for subsidizing the addicts habit, when I made no mention of anything like that, and when you are well aware from many previous posts that bringing down the price of drugs is fundamental to the position of the anti-WOD people, has no concern for the truth.

684 posted on 01/01/2002 12:11:16 AM PST by stryker
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To: Roscoe
Congress prohibited the sale of untaxed whiskey when George Washington was President.

Wrong

Wrong again

685 posted on 01/01/2002 12:12:40 AM PST by AKbear
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To: Roscoe
>>"This power, like all others vested in Congress, is complete in itself, may be exercised to its utmost extent, and acknowledges no limitations, other than are prescribed in the constitution."<<

This bears on the reason so many of the founders were concerned that the Bill of Rights would create confusion among the people and jurors alike. It is clear that it has created this confusion, both in you and in the author of this decision. You see the Bill of Rights is a list of things Congress "may not" do. So it has created the feeling that congress can do anything that it is not prohibited to. The ninth and tenth amendment were intended to be sure this would not be a confusion, but it obviously did not work for many.

686 posted on 01/01/2002 12:15:33 AM PST by LloydofDSS
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To: AKbear
No, they did not "prohibit" untaxed whiskey

Our early Congress prohibited its sale, they smashed the stills in which it was manufactured, and they confiscated and destroyed the whiskey itself.

You've embraced an absurd falsehood regarding prohibition, and have no credible authority to back the meritless assertion.

Where did it come from? Where did you hear it?

687 posted on 01/01/2002 12:16:23 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
I'd be (mildly) interested in hearing your thoughts on why *consumption* of alcohol was not prohibited in the disastrous 19th amendment. Care to cough up a few?
688 posted on 01/01/2002 12:18:13 AM PST by NonMerci
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To: Roscoe
Which says nothing remotely like the contention that the regulatory and taxation powers of Congress would not encompass the power to prohibit.

Limited and enumerated, Roscoe. Limited and enumerated. If it does not specifically say they have a power, they do not have the power.

689 posted on 01/01/2002 12:21:18 AM PST by AKbear
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To: LloydofDSS
Not a single court decision or on point quote to back the contention that Congressional regulatatory powers don't encompass prohibition.

An invention, without a named source.

690 posted on 01/01/2002 12:21:25 AM PST by Roscoe
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correction: 18th amendment
691 posted on 01/01/2002 12:21:27 AM PST by NonMerci
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To: AKbear
Begging the question, and closing your eyes to history and common sense.

At least identify your source. Where did you hear it?

692 posted on 01/01/2002 12:23:30 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: NonMerci
Mildly isn't sufficient.
693 posted on 01/01/2002 12:24:15 AM PST by Roscoe
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You can't legislate morality. period.
694 posted on 01/01/2002 12:28:36 AM PST by FatherTorque
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To: AKbear
If it does not specifically say they have a power, they do not have the power.

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

695 posted on 01/01/2002 12:30:05 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: FatherTorque
You can't legislate morality. period.

So people have no free will to pass laws against rape? robbery? murder? lying? cheating? Sez who?

696 posted on 01/01/2002 12:32:07 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: FatherTorque
You can't legislate morality. period.

Baseless cliche.

Jefferson supported anti-sodomy laws, and most of the states had them.

697 posted on 01/01/2002 12:32:46 AM PST by Roscoe
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To: Roscoe
Prohibition is a form of regulatory power, vested in Congress, complete in itself, and which may be exercised to its utmost extent, and acknowledges no limitations, other than as prescribed in the constitution.

Exactly how does this advance our discussion? Perhaps it does--at least you are acknowledging that there's something about the Constitution that prohibits the government from doing something.

Your contention that free-basing the snot out of the Commerce Clause, such that sharing a marijuana plant becomes inter-state commerce, doesn't threaten every other right we have is laughable. It is no step at all from that to regulating how many bullets I can own, because I had to buy them.

698 posted on 01/01/2002 12:35:00 AM PST by donh
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To: Roscoe
FT> You can't legislate morality. period.

R> Baseless cliche.

No, but it sure sounded convincing when the Marxist professors were standing up in front of our future leaders proselytizing their moral-liberalism onto everyone else.

699 posted on 01/01/2002 12:35:00 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Roscoe
Perhaps Chief Knowitall Roscoe will only respond to the unwashed masses when they address his highness properly. Well I thought it was a good question but I'm a real American (whose ancestors kicked authoritarian butt) and I don't play kiss up very well. Nevertheless, the question hangs...
700 posted on 01/01/2002 12:36:24 AM PST by NonMerci
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