$350 Billion in Subsidies to US Farmers

My call to move on was to give you a chance to stop embarrassing yourself. My figures were from the USDA! For the THIRD time! Do you not know what that is?

Farm bills in various forms have been discussed here for years. The fact that it appears under "headlines" on SCOOP is meaningless. All links to each and every article appear under "headlines."

Last night you were insisting the $350 billion referenced in the article was NEW ZEALAND DOLLARS. Wrong! It's US DOLLARS, just as I tried to tell you. You are one that doesn't face facts well. It is clear for all to see. Stop acting like a child. I have disabused every one of your points. It was really easy to do since they were predicated on FALSEHOODS! Take your jactitations elsewhere. Come back when you have some facts. I'm a million miles from NZ yet I had to explain to you the fact that the article you posted was in US DOLLARS! Gee, SO difficult to ascertain!

Oh fer crying out loud.

I have skimmed through the USDA budget announcement, I know what the USDA is (I am working for them next year, by way of the forest service) and if you are accusing me of ignorance, the fact that you seem to assume that only America uses $ would appear to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

As would your talk of stuff appearing under "Headlines" at FR; I know this, I have been lurking for a year and signed up for four months. If you would actually read what I write, you would see that I have stressed that the article at Scoop.co.nz was in the "breaking news" new section.

Regarding the US vs NZ $ issue, I will assume that you are not especially familiar with foreign news reporting standards, in that typically when quoting foreign money matters in headlines and news text the foreign amounts are converted into local dollars (sometimes with the original amount indicated in the body of the text). Hence, when you originally stated that the amounted quoted was too much, I diplomatically supposed that perhaps it had been converted to $NZ given the target audience, given that this is standard practice.

At this point in time, despite your email to scoop, I am still inclined to think that the amount quoted has been converted to local currency, because 1.the Australian media are reporting the amount as $340 billion and 2.If the amount was in $US by fairly strong convention it would be quoted as such in NZ and in Australia. I dont know who you emailed at Scoop, but the author (Maree Howard?) has just added some relevant local info to what appears to be a wire-story, because almost the exact same wording but with different accreditation has appeared in Aussie publications (presumably, if this story is appearing all over this would also negate your criticisms of Scoop being a biased socialist rag; which it isnt, but you have obviously not bothered to check out their content and find this out for yourself)

Oh yes, "Jactitations": a marvellous wee archaism that I have not had the pleasure of coming across previous to this exchange; is this in common use wherever you live, its great!

Lastly; whether 60% or 30% of $US190 billion or US$350 billion I say again, this is a big wodge of cash being provided to uncompetitive industries by the world's scion of free-market capitalism, small-government and anti-welfare dependency. This is the point I was hoping to encourage debate on by posting the article in the first place, before it got hijacked(and I see now thate veryone else has left). The fact remains that 22% of US farmers incomes (on average) comes from government subsidy. While this is no means as bad as the EU farmers 34%, it is still far far higher than NZ (1%) and is incredibly inequitable.

Are you the suicidal dyslexic twin who killed his brother by accident? In post 31 you stated in the affirmative that article was in NEW ZEALAND DOLLARS! WRONG! If you were so worldly an individual as you maintain, you would know most articles (in international discourse)are given in US DOLLARS unless otherwise specified.i.e.NZD,Australs,Euros,etc.

As to article being in "breaking news" section at SCOOP? It wasn't there when I checked. Why? Because it changes on a regular basis, article had been moved to headline section.

As to your implication I'm lying about the article being in US DOLLARS? Hey, get a clue! You live on a F'ing island! PICK UP THE TELEPHONE AND CALL SCOOP MEDIA! I used the email addy for the editor of SCOOP. If you are so familiar with this publication as you claim, you should be aware of it. Again, just as I stated in my response re:the email from SCOOP-if you do not believe me? Contact THEM! It ain't to difficult. Especially for someone as intelligent as you claim to be.

You somehow mange to shit in your own post-hole with each passing post. Amazing. Keep up the good work. I'm a prior LEO. I enjoy toying with idiots!

If you take anything from this "discussion" it should be that 60% of US farmers get NOTHING from the farm subsidy program. Of the 40% that do? Most are corporations and wealthy individuals. What part of THAT do you not understand? And to compare a tiny little island nation with an insignificant GDP to the USA with a GDP of $10 TRILLION is laughable! WE feed the world! NOT NZ! Now, excuse me while I have another Kiwi for breakfast...and you need to stick to your "bone collecting."

Your profanity and intemperance over such a piddling matter does you no credit; are you purposefully trying to obfuscate the farm subsisdies issue because you dont want to deal with it? The fact remains that the average US farmer (see, average, ie all the farmers, big and small, have their incomes totalled and divided by the nuymber of farms) receives 22% of his or her income from the government, compared to NZ less than 1%. As you so rightly point out, NZ economy is small, depends on its agriciltural exports and obviously finds it difficult to compete with US farmers because of the support (not just direct subsisdies but price supports, tax-rebates, low-interest loans for land development etc etc) of the US government. This is what I was hoping to promote some discussion of.

I have no idea what a "former LEO" is I am afraid. In anycase, I will assume you spend alot of time talking to yourself, given your passion for toying with idiots.

How amusing. After 80-odd posts you arrive at a much disabused statistic. The "22%" figure is very inaccurate. Why? Because it includes ALL US farmers! I have already stated SIXTY PERCENT OF US FARMERS RECEIVE NOTHING (from farm subsidies)! What part of that do you not understand? I have read this much misused stat. The only ones that promulgate it are those with and agenda and those who do not understand the issue.

Why do NZ farmers find it difficult to compete with US farmers? They live on an ISLAND! I don't hear the farmers on Madagascar complaining.

Don't even tell me that if some environmental/entomological disaster hit NZ that US taxpayers and hence US FARMERS would not respond! Even those who receive subsidies-the 40% thast do.

Pleased that you appear to at least accept the article was given in US dollars and not NZD. Better late than never. But 80 posts later?

Yes. IF they are in receipt of subsidies. That is why this figure is skewed. SIXTY PERCENT ARE NOT IN RECEIPT OF SUBSIDIES! So your use of "average" is a distortion. 22% of the 40% of US farmers that RECEIVE subsidies, do in fact get their $$ from government. But again-for about the 100th time, SIXTY PERCENT RECEIVE NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And the 40% that do? For the 100th time, these are mainly corporations and wealthy individuals.

Your continued attempts to disparage US farmers is noted. You have tripped yourself up so many times on this thread, I am embarrassed for you. The entire (farm income and otherwise) of NZ is $50 BILLION! How can you possibly believe yo're situation in NZ is entirely applicable to a country with a GDP of $11 TRILLION?

You continue to say you want to discuss the NZ farm program. Well, do it. I would be interested in the absence of capital gains tax. Is that strictly for farmers or all taxpayers in NZ? i.e. stocks/bonds,etc. Are they likewise free from capital gains? Also the real estate tax? Is that apllicable to farmers only?

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