"Brutus" Number I

Constitution Society ^ | 18 October 1787 | Anti-Federalist Papers

[moonman]

BUMP!!

[fleebag]

You got that right. Thanks my friend for stating facts,not that it will do any good with the, "fathers rights group". Elian's case was not about parental rights. It was about what Castro told Clinton to do......& Clinton did it! To hell with Elian's rights and what was best for a child.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Good Lord, it is GOOD to *see* you, I hope that you are well

[Luis Gonzalez]

One week from tonight! FR Radio presents "An Evening With The Banana Republican" (that's me), with Special Guest, Donato Dalrymple!

Be there!

Somebody please post THE PICTURE!!!

[4CJ]

"A power to make all laws, which shall be necessary and proper, for carrying into execution, all powers vested by the constitution in the government of the United States, or any department or officer thereof, is a power very comprehensive and definite [indefinite?], and may, for ought I know, be exercised in a such manner as entirely to abolish the state legislatures."

The Federalist Papers, the Anti-Federalist Papers, and the ratification debates should be required reading for every American before graduation from High School, and every prospective American citizen.

It's clear that the anti-federalists simply wanted the protections afforded by a stronger union, be abhorred the proposed Constitution, especially with it's lack of a Bill of Rights. Too much power was to be given up, and the new government a despotic monolith that would crush the states at will. Numerous states, especially New York, wrote into their ratification (a contract) that the powers not delegated to the new Federal government were retained by the states, and required a Bill of Rights.

The Federalists promised that this was the case, and that the national government would be limited. The problem was, we fell for it.

[fleebag]

Thanks for missing me.*grin* I'm doing fine,being nurse 24/7 to my honey. Keeps me out of mischief. Stay safe my friend.

[fleebag]

Oh, I forgot to say......I'll try to find you next week on Fr Radio!

[thusevertotyrants]

I guess the point I am trying to convey is that Elian's fate was for his father to decide - regardless of whether that decision jibes with anyone else's sense of what may or may not be best for the child. Now, with the child being kept away from his father, there is a wrong being committed - Now comes the tricky part, who or what is empowered to rectify this wrong? - Is it a Federal police authority? Is it state? Local? Is it Elian's father alone? I dont pretend to have all the answers and I only wish that the Fed's motives in doing what they did were so idealogically pure. To that end, the courts had no business being involved at all. Perish the day when some court must sanction my right to be a father to my child. (And yes, I find it equally repugnant that so many need to be confronted by a court mandate in order that they exercise their DUTY to be a father to their child) Obviously I have Libertarian type views, and often face the response of "If only it were so simple" or somesuch. In truth, there is no reason things shouldnt BE so simple. INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY ..... seeking neither to rule nor to be ruled, to be neithere benefactor nor beneficiary ... recognizing that "all men are created equal" means that any right or prerogative or behavior I claim for myself I must be willing to sanction for others. While all men may be "created equal" in the sense that none has divine right to rule over others, this doesnt equate to sanction any authority to ensure equal entitlement for all, or to level the playing field in any sense. In the end, what makes humanity great and what is it that none can take from any other - each individual's unique mind and identity.

[Jim Robinson]

Well, the fact of the matter is, America is not Nazi Germany. Or, at least, it's not supposed to be. We already know what Janet Reno and her government storm troopers are capable of. You do not serve warrants on men, women and children with tanks! You do not save the children from alleged child abuse by burning them to death! And you do not send storm troopers with machine guns to terrorize a six year old child! Sheesh! Janet Reno should be in rotting in prison (or hell) for either of these horrific abuses. This was not exactly a shining example of American justice.

[thusevertotyrants]

Neither was it a shinging example of family harmony. Elian was and is a Cuban citizen. His detention on US soil becomes an issue between the United States and Cuba, and one of the powers the Fed SHOULD retain is attending to our foreign relations. Try this - reverse the situation. A mother takes her child and heads for Cuba, dying along the way. The child's extended family in Cuba then refuses to let the child's father in America have him back. What would you think then? That the evil communists have abducted an American citizen? Or try this? Since we arent supposed to go busting in with machine guns to terrify citizens, what of the young university student about whom there was a thread last night? The one who got a visit from the Fed because of a poster in her dorm room - If I whisper to the authorities that so and so is against the government, does that give the Fed the right to stage a raid under the theory of a "plausible threat against the president?" Or is this different because the student in question happened to be a Liberal? If you sanction the right for Elian's Miami based relatives to take custody of him because they feel he is better off being "free" in America, then, my friend, you sanction some authority to seperate YOU from YOUR child under should they propose the same premise .... I wouldnt suppose that you think that "democracy" means that 51 a majority vote can decide what is to become of you or your child? F-R-E-E-D-O-M --- it isnt simple, it isnt easy, it is a guarantee of nothing save itself, and it entails tremendous personal responsibility

[f.Christian]

To: thusevertotyrants

"Kidnappers"? You bought into the whole ball of lies from the left. The DoJ requested, on more than one occasion, that the Federal Courts deciding the case, issue an order compelling the Lazaro Gonzalez family to turn Elian over to Juan Miguel, the Federal Court refused to act in that manner each and every time the request was made. Furthermore, those same Federal Judges issued a Court order mandating that Elian remain on US soil until his case had been heard, and a decision rendered.

The DoJ had a warrant sworn out for one Elian Gonzalez, an illegal alien, believed to be hiding at "(insert Lazaro's address here)". Elian was here under a Federal Court order, impossible to be here illegally if a Federal Courts tells you that you can't leave, and if he was indeed arrested, his Miranda rights were never read to him, and council was denied.

Elian Gonzalez was born out of wedlock, and Juan Miguel was a non-custodial parent. There where no tests run to authenticate the claim of fatherhood on Juan Miguel's part. When originally interviewed in Cuba by a US INS agent, Juan Miguel was asked whether he would like to go to the USA to get Elian, he answered "no".

Do you believe that in the US, courts should award custody of an orphaned child to a non-custodial parent without ascertaining paternity first?

You are supporting one of the most criminal acts perpetrated by the Clinton administration, and a violation of at least two, if not more, amendments to the Constitution.

19 posted on 12/6/01 4:29 PM Pacific by Luis Gonzalez

Does the rule of law mean anything to you?

[Jim Robinson]

Family harmony? Are you out of your mind? You dare compare burning men, women, and children to death and terrorizing others with machine guns to family harmony? Doesn't matter what else you said in your rant. This is way over the top! You are hoplessly lost.

[Jim Robinson]

Family harmony my arse. You think about this: Government agents make charcoal out of families comprised of men, women and children then the same cruel witch is left in office to threaten other families, and even a helpless frightened, homeless, motherless little boy with a cursing, hooded, goggled, machinegum toting Nazi stormtrooper and then you dare talk about freedom in the same paragraph? What's wrong with this picture?

[Danielle]

Family harmony? Are you out of your mind? You dare compare burning men, women, and children to death and terrorizing others with machine guns to family harmony? Doesn't matter what else you said in your rant. This is way over the top! You are hoplessly lost

He said nothing about burning men, women or children. He was talking about families and how others do not have the right to take away your children because they believe differently politically. I didn't like to see the machine gun, but people that abduct children that they have no right to are dealt with in that manner in this Country.

[nunya bidness]

Jim,

Thanks for posting this and the other Anti-Federalist papers. We were so close to a republic that could last for a long time.

Honest question: Do you think that the Federalists saw greed as an opportunity to exert influence to make personal gain or merely capitulation to form a more perfect union?

[Jim Robinson]

No.

[thusevertotyrants]

The Fed should not have the authority to decide and act on what they think is best for my family. Therefore, I condemn Waco and Ruby Ridge. Essentailly my view is that Elian's extended family did the same sort of thing the Fed did at Waco and Ruby Ridge - namely stepped in where they had no business under the pretense of noble intentions

[Doctor Doom]

Someday, somewhere, free men shall again walk this earth.

Yes. Giants once walked the earth, and shall again.

You can't keep this kind of spirit down long.

[nunya bidness]

No.

Which one?