New Federal Patriot Act Turns Retailers into Spies against Customers

The Boston Globe ^ | 11/28/2001 | By Scott Bernard Nelson, The Boston Globe

[JD86]

See #207...just catching up....ya'll got me outnumbered..:)

[JD86]

BTW, JD86, you sound like an IRS agent.

Nope, just a backwoods country lawyer who believes in obeying the law.
It has been my experience it is easier to stay out of holes than to get out of holes.

[Henrietta]

I will point out that you file a tax return every year.

Filing a tax return listing your income is different than being forced to compile a dossier on your best customers. Putting aside the constitutional arguments, people have objections to being tracked, catalogued, and monitored. Such things are inconsistent with a free society. Your mocking portrayal of those who disagree with you as "mulletheads," "pips," and "constitution warriors," is unflattering to you, and makes you seem less like a learned counselor and student of the law, and more like the obstreperous ninnies at DU. At least that's what THIS counselor at law thinks.

[TheOtherOne]

Some of us are not name calling, but asking serious questions.

See #211 for my reply to your #207

[Rowdee]

At the time I wrote that, I was thinking of the drug laws that put my kid brother in prison and the laws that let Senator Shelby's kid or Representative Burton's kid off the hook......and, of course, there was an allegation about a President's family stepping in on a problem, too.....

[JD86]

First, you should keep practicing...You are very creative at changing the argument...:)

It is more invasive than him filing his quarterly tax returns which make no mention of me? YES.

As you are well aware, there is no requirement for him to show how he spends his money on his tax return, unless he is looking for a tax deduction..so you are mixing apples and oranges.

But I would still say this is an acceptable request because the patron has other options, he can write a check..or pay by credit card. Like it or not...admit it or not...most people who pay more than $10,000 in cash have an alterior motive, they are hiding cash from the tax man, their wife, someone....
and lots of people on this thread are protesting too much.

[JD86]

So, now that you know there is a reporting requirement, would you pay in cash for jewelry or other items?

[Rowdee]

..."please show me where there is anything about how much money you can make? or keep? or even spend?"....for starters, take a look at the tax laws....they certainly restrict you from spending whatever you earn. Then look at the current sitting President....how many times has he stated he believes the government shouldn't take more than 1/3 (33% is the figure he quotes) of your income!!! This has to mean the Fedgov because he has no control over the states.

[Native American Female Vet]

"You are the first person to question my right to comment...or to paint me as a liberal"

I did not question your right to comment. It is best to know if one is conversing with a liberal or a conservative on this forum.

I did not paint you as a liberal, you had the brush in your hand and I was just noticing the color you were using.

[JD86]

An important element of rational debate is to seperate 'what should be' from 'what is'.

Thanks, you said it better than I did. They are attacking me like I wrote the law....I am just telling them what it says...
and more importantly, what it doesn't say.

[JD86]

Perhaps you should reread your own post. You call me a liberal and then say this is a forum for conservatives..?? and you meant what???

[copycat]

It is a search. The only question in my mind is whether it is reasonable or unreasonable.

ps...To state that equating buisness with "public" action facilitates the change to fascism (ie public ownership of all industry) is hardly name-calling, but an observation.

FReegards...

[JD86]

It is a search.

Okay, you keep saying that...how is it a search?

[Rowdee]

You've noticed that thing about bankers, too, it seems.

Just a few days ago, listening to a bunch of the talking heads/pundits/idiots, on the discussion topic of a new government in Afghanistan....the first thing out on the table was central banking.

[JD86]

Some of us are not name calling, but asking serious questions.

I know, and I am trying to respond in kind. The person I was answering called me a fascist because I disagreed with her/him.

[JD86]

Okay, take a deep breath....you have taken my statement out of context....
I was discussing the Federal Patriot Act... you are talking Income Tax...IRS Code....apples and oranges.

[copycat]

How do you feel about filing a tax return every year?

I feel the income tax is un-Constitutional. Fedgov has grown beyond the restrictions placed on it by the Founders.

The acquiescence of persons like yourself to an all-powerful Fedgov is simply too much to battle against. It is clear that the people have lost the will to police themselves and govt has decided they must be policed. The ensuing police-state may be safe, but it will never be free.

FReegards...

[TheOtherOne]

It is more invasive than him filing his quarterly tax returns which make no mention of me? YES.

You asked if it was more intrusive. I think it is. While a tax return is required, this is an additional set of information that is not needed to complete taxes. Of course, the transaction should and always would be reported as part of the business financials. The question is this extra information of reporting the name and other details of the individual who paid in cash. That is the disclosure that is prohibited without more.

As you are well aware, there is no requirement for him to show how he spends his money on his tax return, unless he is looking for a tax deduction..so you are mixing apples and oranges.

Huh?

Like it or not...admit it or not...most people who pay more than $10,000 in cash have an alterior motive, they are hiding cash from the tax man, their wife, someone.... and lots of people on this thread are protesting too much.

Many people have ulterior motives for having locks on their car trucks too right? Some use it to hide illegal substances. Does that mean all of us should have our trunks searched? Again, do I think this will affect me or many people, no. Does that make it less of a constitutional violation, no.

[copycat]

The person I was answering called me a fascist because I disagreed with her/him.

Surely a lawyer like yourself can understand the difference between "calling you a fascist" and saying that you are "facilitating" the gradual transformation of America to a fascist state.