Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 11/18/2001 1:04:52 PM PST by Jean S
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-59 last
To: JeanS
bump for the newbies!
129 posted on 12/24/2001 6:28:12 AM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
bump for the newbies!
130 posted on 12/24/2001 6:28:40 AM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Whose fault?

Just as we have race pimps here (and poverty, gender, disability pimps, etc.) that can only thrive if there is a problem, therefore they only point out the problems rather than working to solve them. These third world countries are run by rulers whose power continues only if the problems persist.

132 posted on 12/24/2001 7:06:37 AM PST by Flyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Wrong right brain software. Good right brain software harnesses and retrains the right brain, the seat of emotion, and allows the left brain to become productive and creative. Judeo-Christianity has so far been the only right brain software worth diddly on the planet.
136 posted on 12/24/2001 9:15:37 AM PST by mow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Arab world poverty is the fault of the Arabs themselves ... every people has to dig themselves out ... they've got all the money now and have for 40 years ... but they spend it on weapons to destroy Israel ... wonder what would happen if it wasn't spent on hate and used for constructive purposes? ... oh sure, they spend some, but want a handout ...
138 posted on 12/24/2001 9:46:54 AM PST by Bobby777
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
It's their own fault. Arabs are useless violent people.
146 posted on 12/24/2001 10:21:53 PM PST by boycott
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Who is to blame?

Countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt suffer double-digit unemployment rates, estimated as high as 25 percent. Grinding poverty and religious zealotry, wrapped around a blanket of government-led scapegoating of Israel, the United States and the West -- all combine to form a dangerous and deadly Third World victicrat mindset. Blame triumphs over enlightenment, and anger defeats reason.

The following article (along with other similar articles) makes it clear what is to blame - islamic law itself. Industrialization requires concentration of capital and rewards for risks. Being able to make large loans at interest (and to contract to compensate future losses) make up the foundation of modern banking and insurance which made the modern corporation and the western industrial revolution possible.

But islamic law does not permit this, and therefore does not permit modern banking -- or modern insurance. Instead, there is the strange creature referred to as the "islamic bank", which is very inefficient, too easy with its convoluted transactions to make crooked (remember BCCI), and cannot support large concentration of capital or reward large concentration of risk. (this is one reason why the saudis do so much investing of money they don't want to kiss off in the west and in the US - they may be crazy but they ain't stupid)

So, in a world where getting out of poverty usually means industrializing, the arab world will always be poor unless they have a cash crop with inelastic demand, like oil or narcotics. Not much point in working hard in a system like this.

From http://www.mg.co.za/mg/news/99sep2/21sep-islam_biz.html

Johannesburg, South Africa. September 21, 1999  

Making money the Muslim way

With a fifth of the world's people following Islamic principles, the debate about the Islamic economic system is hotting up, writes SHAUN HARRIS.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The basis of what is today called the Islamic economic system goes back more than 1 400 years and is founded on the values set out in the directives of the prophets, the Qur'an and the Sunna, and the Ijtehad forum.

Yet Islamic economics is very much a developing discipline, particularly in its application to modern life. Growth of Islamic economics and micro-components like the Islamic banking system has been rapid since 1975, the year of the first international Islamic economic conference and the formation of the Islamic Development Bank (IDB). Last month Durban was the venue for the first Islamic economics, banking and finance seminar to be held in Southern Africa.

The three-day meeting brought academics and researchers from around the world to address and debate economic issues with the local Muslim community.

The importance of the seminar, hosted by the Islamic Dawah Movement of Southern Africa and IDB of Saudi Arabia, was to "try to discover and develop a new, fresh approach to economics", says Professor Khurshid Ahmed, vice-president of the Islamic Research Academy in Pakistan.

Ahmed carries a lot of intellectual and moral weight. The Islamic Research Academy is regarded as one of the top Islamic academic institutions in the world, but some of the other positions filled by Ahmed include chair of The Islamic Foundation in the United Kingdom and chair of the Institute of Policy Studies in Pakistan. He was also a member of the Pakistan Senate in 1985.

He set the tone for the meeting by saying that while modern Islamic economics was in the process of transforming itself, its application was important to provide an alternative to some of the problems stemming from Western systems, what he calls "economism" .

"The downfall of economism is that it tries to look at all problems from the economic angle. This tends to reduce humanity to an economic variable," he says. A stern critic of imperialism -- "it led to the impoverishment of the majority and empowerment of the few" -- and capitalism, Ahmed says the aim of Islamic economics is to produce a more fair, just and humane economic system.

"Great strides have been made by professional researchers in the development of Islamic economics and finance over the past 25 years. A number of Western universities all over the world now include courses on Islamic economics.

"But research is not enough -- Islamic economics must now be applied, particularly by the private sector."

This is where the debate really opens up. With a firm basis in religious and ethical principles, the application of Islamic economics to commercial activities like banking, letting and especially insurance is the subject of interpretation, and in some cases pragmatism.

The Islamic principles are clear and accepted by Muslims -- the challenge is how to apply them to modern business, particularly in a non-Islamic country.

Ahmed accepts this cannot happen overnight. "Islamic economics has made great progress, but it is still developing, and still has a long way to go," he says. But what is this developing system of economics? It incorporates, or accepts, some of the features of the modern free-market system, but within the constraints of Shari'ah, rules derived directly from the Qur'an and Sunnah, says Dr Abdel Rahman Yousri, professor of economics at Alexandria University, Egypt.

The base of the Islamic economic system, he says, is composed of the "constants" of Shari'ah but also the variables deducted from them through the Ijtehad forum, described as diligence on the part of Muslim jurists and scholars to find out rules for new issues and problems which face Muslim individuals and societies.

"Thus the Islamic economic system, though established on dogmas, will always possess sufficient flexibility in the face of new issues and problems which inevitably arise in our continuously changing world," Yousri says.   

Central in the "constants" is the complete prohibition of Riba, loosely translated as interest, but with far wider implications, including usury and payments in certain cases on the future expectation of profits or goods.

The owners of capital are instead allowed and encouraged to invest, through various methods, in profit-and loss-sharing ventures.

A common misconception about Islamic economics is that it precludes a return on capital. It does not, as long as the original capital is invested in assets or an enterprise that can produce a profit -- ultimately a return on capital.

What is strictly not allowed is for money to generate its own return directly, as in the interest charged on loans by Western banks.

This has allowed for the formation and rapid development of Islamic banking. Dr Osman Babikr, a researcher with the IDB, says according to Islamic principles money can earn a return only by being employed productively, rather than being allowed to feed on itself in financial markets.

"When an Islamic bank lends money, it shares the risks and rewards undertaken by the borrower. The bank's rate of return depends on the financial success of its clients," he says.

Depositors can enter into contracts with banks, similar to the Western concept of share capital, whereby their money is lent to a third party engaged in profit-earning activities.

The depositors then share the profits the bank receives from these activities. This adaptation of Islamic principles to modern banking has seen the rapid development of Islamic financial institutions, starting with the Dubai Islamic Bank in 1975.

Since the early 1980s two large Islamic groups have been formed, Al Baraka (the only Islamic bank in South Africa since the collapse of the local Islamic Bank) and Dar Mal Al Islami.

Latest available figures, to the end of 1997, show a total of 176 Islamic banks around the world, with total capital of more than $7,3-billion and total assets of about $148-billion.

But the really fascinating, and according to Dr Hussein Kamel Fahmi confusing, concept to debate in Islamic economics is insurance.

Fahmi, a senior researcher at the Islamic Research and Training Institute in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, says while contemporary Islamic society faces the same types of risk that prevail in Western countries, the problem is on what basis they can be insured against.

A definition of insurance is money paid, usually on a monthly or annual basis, against an unforeseen risk that will be compensated for with money.

That definition, says Fahmi, is not acceptable under Islamic practice (though some scholars have argued in favour of it) because it implies money producing money, which in turn evokes the prohibition of Riba.

Islam also recognises two sets of commodity items, gold and silver (and by analogy bank notes) and soft commodities like dates, wheat, barley and salt.

Among other Islamic rules governing commercial exchanges between these sets of commodities is one that stipulates that commodities exchanged in the same class must be settled at a spot price, and immediately.

So bank notes, like the payment of insurance premiums, cannot be made on the basis of receiving compensation for a loss in the form of bank notes at a future date.

That, says Fahmi, poses one of the main problems for applying the Western insurance system to Islamic society. But in some non-Islamic countries Muslims have been forced to be pragmatic and use insurance companies.

There is also a growing trend of Muslim syndicates being formed to offer a basic form of insurance for members.

However, with more than a fifth of the world's population following Islamic principles -- more than a billion people -- a massive market must exist for an insurance group innovative enough to produce a system of insurance that complies with Islam.

-- The Mail & Guardian, September 21, 1999. -

Material on the Daily Mail&Guardian site may not be republished without permission.

Fair use - for education and discussion purposes only.

153 posted on 12/25/2001 4:38:33 PM PST by pttttt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
"Muslims love to live in the U.S. but also love to hate it. Many openly claim that the U.S. is a terrorist state but they continue to live in it.

Can't we just substitute liberals for muslims, and it still means about the same thing?

179 posted on 12/29/2001 3:03:12 PM PST by Mark17
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS;ALL
Arab World Poverty -- Whose Fault?

Gee wiz, let me see that's a hard one -- NOT!

It's the governments' fault.

"...Israel is the only non-totalitarian, economically free-and-successful country midst a 56-country array of Arab-world losers.  Contrary to Israel and America, every Arab/Muslim country is ruled by a non-elected dictator and is a miserable economic/social failure." -- Total Victory 

The more a government is limited to defending individual rights and property the more prosperous the people are. Entrepreneurs, financiers, capitalists, pioneers, businessmen, researchers, scientists, industrialists you name it, they'll create jobs and build infrastructure. But only if the government gets out of the way. What follows was written with United States in mind but it applies to every country.

Value Destroyers versus Value Producers

If civilization had to chose between business/science and government/bureaucracy, eliminating the other, which is the better choice?

The first thing civilization must have is business/science. It's what the family needs so that its members can live creative, productive, happy lives. Business/science can survive, even thrive without government/bureaucracy.

 Government/bureaucracy cannot survive without business/science. In general, business/science and family is the host and government/bureaucracy is a parasite.

Aside from that, keep valid government services that protect individual rights and property. Military defense, FBI, CIA, police and courts. With the rest of government striped away those few valid services would be several fold more efficient and effective than they are today. 

Underwriters Laboratory is a private sector business that has to compete in a capitalist market. Underwriters laboratory is a good example of success where government fails.

Any government agency that is a value to the people and society could better serve the people by being in the private sector where competition demands maximum performance.

183 posted on 12/29/2001 10:04:20 PM PST by Zon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
bump
190 posted on 01/01/2002 10:23:38 AM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Beats the kaka out of me. I fail to understand just what aspect of me living my life has affect on Arab poverty?
199 posted on 01/06/2002 6:24:21 AM PST by lawdude
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
bump, just because it's there!
243 posted on 03/30/2002 5:47:11 PM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Arab world poverty? Doesn't take more than a couple seconds to answer that the muslim sheikhs/dictators are responsible for keeping their own people in the stone age. As they live in their palaces of gold, their own people are starving. SHAME!
245 posted on 03/31/2002 7:51:07 PM PST by RamsNo1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS; Prodigal Daughter; Thinkin' Gal; Jeremiah Jr; Alouette; veronica; dennisw
>Arab World Poverty -- Whose Fault?

Their own.  They curse Israel and G~d curses them.  All those who oppose Israel are cursed with a curse.

Ge 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

273 posted on 08/09/2002 6:51:54 PM PDT by 2sheep
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
bump for files
275 posted on 08/15/2002 7:09:19 PM PDT by Quix
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
Arab World Poverty -- Whose Fault?

Who cares?

281 posted on 08/24/2002 11:21:04 AM PDT by Publius6961
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: JeanS
A refreshing read. I would like to see 10,000 more.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

302 posted on 10/20/2002 2:24:54 PM PDT by LonePalm
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-59 last

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson