Posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:06 PM PST by Khepera
"What if" games can be played all day long and accomplish little to nothing.
I believe the Bible completely and fully.
Do you also believe the teachings of "the church" fully and completely? For many many many years "the church" would kill people for questioning their teachings. Such as their teaching that the sun revolves around the earth and that the earth is flat.
You are allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). That must cause many troubles at the office. I'm just wondering how you know who is and who isnt.
I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16).
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us tha that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Hello Hugh! My mother-in-law asked me to read Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, so I did. My 11-year-old niece is a Harry Potter devotee, and MIL just wanted my opinion (FWIW) on the book.
Overall, my impression is that Sorcerer's Stone, being targeted to kids, seemed to be framed to make a strong appeal to fantasy and illusion at a time when kids really ought to be learning about real life. Plus I thought that such statements as "Death is but the next adventure" was not the sort of thing you want to legitimate for children, given the teen suicide statistics.
You said: "I just can't see my faith being shaken by reading a piece of fiction." Well, you have a faith, presumably mature with the passing of time and ripened by life experience. It probably would be difficult for a "work of fiction" to make a dent in it, whatever it may be. But can we say the same thing of a young child?
Maybe it's just me; but the Sorcerer's Stone came across as typical, standard "one-worlder," fashionable Left Progressive cr*p. But then, maybe I'm just strange. best, bb.
Overall, my impression is that Sorcerer's Stone, being targeted to kids, seemed to be framed to make a strong appeal to fantasy and illusionSort of like "Star Wars"/"The Empire Strikes Back"/"Return of the Jedi"/"The Phantom Menace", or in a lighter vein "The Wizard of Oz", if you ask me.
Now, on to The Book of Pooh.
Go back and read the New Testament and then we'll talk.
Every work of Disney, the Looney Tunes cartoons or Bear in the Big Blue House (which my 13 month old loves) are fantasies and illusions. You're painting with a very broad brush. (Darth Reagan)
Virtually all technological advancement begins with the indulgence of fantasy and illusion. (JmyBryan)
Thank you Hugh Akston, Darth Reagan, JmyBryan for your thoughtful comments. Some of my thoughts in return, in no particular order:
Except for openers: There is fantasy; and then there is fantasy. I need to elaborate this main point in order to make the distinction clear.
Speaking as a long-time fan of Looney Tunes and The Wizard of Oz (and seeing merit in the Star Wars series, Star Trek and other works of such ilk – which are science fiction, not precisely “fantasy” – not to mention Dr. Seuss and even Aesop’s Fables, etc.): What all these various works have in common is a common worldview, a worldview which Harry Potter not only does not share, but seems to want to evade, even undermine (perhaps).
What all these “fantastic” works have in common, for all their imaginative flights, is a tie to reality as human beings actually experience it. The Wizard of Oz, for instance, has been interpreted as an extended allegory of William Jennings Bryan’s famous “Cross of Gold” speech. And being a student of history, I can see the point of that.
Bugs and Daffy and Tweety and Sylvester surely were intended as extended meditations on various types of actual human nature. What such diverse works have in common is a shared moral universe: That things are good or bad, because it is the very nature of things to be “good” or “bad.” What things can never be is “perfect” – especially if such “perfection” is attainable only if the human person can be held exempt from moral laws that are every bit as basic in our universe as physical laws.
THIS is precisely the “artistic motive” of the Harry Potter series: That imagination – however fanciful, as in the case of unicorns and hydras and griffins and leprechauns and minotaurs and satyrs and pegaguses, or The Grinch for that matter, etc. -- can be successfully detached from the “real” of human experience if we are to understand what fantastic characters and situations represent to the human imagination. (Not a one of the fanciful “characters” in this list is as divorced from actual human experience as Harry Potter is.)
J. D. Rowlings apparently has decided the connection between imagination and experienced reality is no longer necessary or desirable. She wouldn’t get away with this conclusion among thoughtful adults. So her target is little children: Seize on the “tabula rasa” of the child-mind and build the Common Humanity of Mass Man for the future (by utterly destroying the normative human moral categories).
Even fantasies are “true” or “false” – as measured against personal and historical reality. Just as some “myths” are true, but others are not.
I strongly disagree with you, JmyBryan, that “virtually all technological advancement begins with the indulgence of fantasy and illusion.” If that were so, science could not advance at all. Please follow me here: We achieve scientific, technological breakthroughs by staying attuned to the universe, not by evading it. There is a critical distinction to be made as between “fantasy” and “imagination.” Lit majors and socialists can maybe get along for quite some time on the former; but science dies if the former, and not the latter, is in the saddle.
IMHO, J. D. Rowlings is selling just this sort of very dangerous “evasion” to our children. To put it bluntly: Any fantasy that has lost its connection with Reality ceases to be fantasy; it becomes “illusion,” escapism, perhaps even propaganda.
In conclusion: I’m not saying to any parent, “Do not let your children read these books.” All I’m saying is, if your kids are reading these books, then ask them to tell you what they think about Harry Potter and his various (completely and totally unlikely from the standpoint of realism) exploits. You are responsible for the moral upbringing of your children; don’t let J. D. Rowlings usurp that role by default or “neglect.”
Thanks again, dear collaborators, for your insights on this question. Best to all – bb.
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CONTRAVENING THE OLD TESTAMENT, POTTER ARRIVES AS AN OCCULT TIDAL WAVE
It looks innocent enough, even cute. There is the bespectacled boy, Harry Potter, and he stands up against the forces of evil. He does this by using magic. He's a wizard. He trains under witches. He is a witch -- more technically, a warlock. But it's all in fun. Harmless. Those who complain are on the fringe.
And so it is that at the most spiritually vulnerable time in recent world history comes an occult tidal wave, packaged irresistibly. This is the Beaver Cleaver of witchery. Never has the occult come in such a desirable form, and never has it come in such a massive fashion. We don't pretend to be experts on Potter, but we know all we need to know. We know that Potter casts spells, that he employs witchcraft (there is no such thing as "good" witchcraft), and that the books about him contain the names of actual demons. One former witch -- now a pastor -- described the Potter series as "witchcraft manuals" written at a surprising level of sophistication.
There is the Hogwart's School of Witchcraft. There is a witch's actual incantation.
Such is anything but harmless and the residue will be with us for years. For to orient our youth in the direction of the occult and to expose them to such forces in the name of fun is very dangerous and comes at a time (remember September 11?) when we're supposed to be in the mode of repentance. Societies in Egyptian and Roman times were chastised for involvement in precisely such paganism.
It has nothing to do with fanaticism. It has everything to do with the Bible. Again, the bottom line is simple. As it explicitly states in Deuteronomy 18:10: "Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortuneteller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts or spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the Lord." In another version (the King James) it explicitly uses the term "wizard" as a condemned practice and in 1 Samuel 15:23 we see mentioned "the sin of witchcraft." In II Chronicles is the account of a man who "wrought much evil in the sight of the Lord" because he "used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards." It doesn't get much more direct then that. You believe the Bible or you believe J.K. Rowling. As we recall, Rowling told an interviewer she was given the idea by an entity that popped into her head. We wonder what that could have been, but we do not wonder about her books. However cute, to embrace Potter is to expose our kids to the energy of darkness. We realize that many of you have done so unknowingly, and so that's excused; we know you meant no harm. But you know now, or will if you open up Scripture. Whenever we have books or see movies involving the occult, there is the potential for infestation. Often unrecognized, spirits are allowed to attach themselves to people who willingly expose themselves; let's not forget that the child behind the case in The Exorcist became possessed after playing with a "harmless" Ouija Board. Hopefully, Potter will quickly fade. But it doesn't look like he will. It looks like it could be one of the biggest movies ever. And it couldn't come at a more spiritually vulnerable time. During a moment when the Lord is calling us back-- and specifically calling us to guard our youth -- here we are sending what can only be described as the occult's version of a tidal wave.
First I've heard of it. I saw her interviewed, she didn't mention it... Did Falwell pass that on to you?
So what music do you listen to? Ever sing happy birthday? Did you check to see if those who wrote them were atheist before hand??? Slippery slope…
I am not Roman Catholic and do not "follow the church" or look to the Pope and his predecessors/successors as God’s human leader of world Christianity. They may not be the only folks who follow the church but they are the first ones I think of. I do not think Catholics are "Bad" or "Evil" so don't start calling me a Catholic basher because I am not. Jesus was killed in part because he did not follow the teachings of the church.
As for the rest of the passages in your inquiry from the Old Testament. I am not an Orthodox Jew and these particular passages from the Mosaic Law which was directed to the Jewish people. Jesus came to fulfill the law and takes our sins on his shoulders to be killed but rise again in three days. He did this because man could not live by the laws of God and had become hypocrites following the traditions of man and not God. I do not know why Orthodox Jews do not follow all of these laws but as for me, Jesus died so that I would not be held to the mosaic laws that where handed down to the Jews. You need to ask the Jews about these laws.
What all these “fantastic” works have in common, for all their imaginative flights, is a tie to reality as human beings actually experience it.I specifically chose the science fiction pieces I did, because they include a faux religion in the Jedi's use of the force. As far as I know, there is no force that surround all humans and can be used by humans to move objects, to sense occurrences, to talk remotely, to see the dead, to allow them to perform super-human acts.
I find little difference between Luke being indoctrinated into the spiritual battle between the Jedi and the Stiths, and Potter being indoctrinated into the world of witchcraft. Both are imaginary flights of fancy.
Is Potter based on existing mythology more directly? Without doubt. It still remains mythology, however, and something I have a hard time seeing as a threat.
Now the flying monkeys in the "Wizard of Oz", now those I have a problem with (especially since their uniforms look a little too much like West Point uniforms lol).
In conclusion: I’m not saying to any parent, “Do not let your children read these books.” All I’m saying is, if your kids are reading these books, then ask them to tell you what they think about Harry Potter and his various (completely and totally unlikely from the standpoint of realism) exploits. You are responsible for the moral upbringing of your children; don’t let J. D. Rowlings usurp that role by default or “neglect.”Great advice for books beyond Rowlings, as well. Lord knows, there is a lot of liberal propaganda of all types in literature (particularly kids books), and besides, kids like having their parents involved (even if they resist).
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