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JOSEPH SOBRAN: "Weighing the Costs"
Sobran.com ^ | October 23, 2001 | Joseph Sobran

Posted on 11/06/2001 11:22:18 AM PST by ouroboros

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To: dighton
FreeRepublic too, BWAHAHA!
Lousy debut, lucretius.

Darn, I always miss the fringe posts, but don't be too hard on lucretius. His phrasing is classic Muslim/Arabprop Tag Team, and he just needs to fine tune and tone down his personna intro a tad.

41 posted on 11/06/2001 3:03:39 PM PST by Publius6961
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To: annalex; yall
The problem is making 'them' [millons of them], realise we are dead serious, and that we will not stop, without tiggering WWIII.

We are NOT doing that, convincing 'them', to date, imo. -- We haven't yet found a way to do it. And the old ways sure in hell don't work.

I agree with you, by and large. I don't plan to change the people, I meant "change the government".

And that's part of the old ways, the old thinking, that doesn't work.

We should make it clear that we don't care what kind of government or beliefs they have.
We have to convince them, [and in particular their leaders] that they will die if they kill us. This is not being done, and probably hasn't been done, since our indian wars of the 1800's.
HOW it can be done, on a world wide scale, is a damn good question. Any ideas?

42 posted on 11/06/2001 3:05:01 PM PST by tpaine
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To: ouroboros
Most of our recent history, WW1, WW2, Korea, Viet Nam, Desert Storm, has been about us being on the side of the underdog, being on the side of the good guys, and why is that? Because most of us have always thought we stood for something. And it's a telling statement about us, that now we struggle with standing on the side of right against wrong.

This entire war against Israel, the United States, the Western Idustrialized nations, is all about Islam. These fanatics, even the moderate ones, see Islam as a conquering force, they are commanded to take the world for their god by peace or by slaughter. For Israel to exist right there in the middle of Baal land means their god is losing, however we will face this war with Islam, eventually, Israel or no Israel. You can tell yourself the Muslims will be content to have the entire Mideast all to themselves and they will never spread past their borders, you would be wrong though.

From my Christian perspective it is very clear, the USofA founded itself on Christian, bible based principles, and God blessed us beyond anything that anyone in the world could have ever imagined. In fact all Western Christian nations have done well for themselves as compared to the rest of humanity.

Leave it to mans stupidity or vanity to ignore this fact and make it strictly a matter of luck or conquest. Ten million things could have gone wrong, the indians could have kicked us right back to Europe, Columbus could have been lost at sea along with the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Marie. Instead of the world wanting to imitate our form of government that granted the freedom to the individual to be different, to think his own way, and to actually keep most of what he made, they say we stole it, or owe it to the third world. I actually had an Muslim on FR tell me that we owe all our knowledge to them, it was theirs and we stole it. Try to be different, or think different in Afghanistan, an inventor would last about 15 mins in that environment.

God has said to Israel, I will bless those that bless you and curse those that curse you, I really don't feel like pushing our luck with 40,000,000 abortions to our credit, we are already on God's "deal with" list, and it wouldn't be wise to take that to the limit in my opinion.

43 posted on 11/06/2001 3:06:04 PM PST by MissAmericanPie
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To: Architect
Israeli government controls the process of obtaining an Israeli citizenship as it properly should. It is a nation state and the process depends on the applicant's nationality, consistent with the norm everywhere in Europe. Those on Israel's territory who commit crimes against life or property are imprisoned or expelled out of the country, thus creating that mythical Palestinian nation. It is remarkable that no Arab country wants the bastards either.

Israeli citizens of Arab descent have the same rights as all Israeli citizens.

44 posted on 11/06/2001 3:09:45 PM PST by annalex
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To: madrussian
Whether Christianity has its origin in the ancient Palestine, is hardly relevant.

That will come as a surprise to the billions of people who take it for granted that "Judaeo-Christian" civilization means... well, Judaeo-Christian.

45 posted on 11/06/2001 3:11:00 PM PST by Publius6961
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To: tpaine
Any ideas?

Make their own governments do it.

Gotta run, guys. Will pick it up later. Shalom - shalom

46 posted on 11/06/2001 3:11:31 PM PST by annalex
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To: ouroboros
Even when the Israelis kill American sailors or steal American military secrets, these fine Americans never express outrage or demand investigations.
Methinks Mr. Joe is a FReeper. Who is it that is always throwing up that Naval incident?
I don't remember any sailors being killed in twenty or more years. Maybe Mr. Joe's next column will expand upon that issue. Sounds like he has got old issues to work out still and you are just lashing out.
Why express outrage or demand investigations Mr. Joe? You do fine all on your own. You have "clout". Use it!
Do that voodoo that you do so well!

And as far as SPYING!!! Why the hell aren't you railing against the CHINESE?
Oh no, you'd rather direct your ire at Israel! You suck more each time I read you. A little hypocrisy there Mr. Joe?
I sure don't see you calling for investigations into that.

47 posted on 11/06/2001 3:15:44 PM PST by philman_36
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To: Architect
JOE SOBRAN discussed on FreeRepublic. Ay!
The end is near. Oy!
48 posted on 11/06/2001 3:17:46 PM PST by I Believe It's Not Butter
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To: abwehr
Second the Arabs and the Palestinians most particularly must demonstrate that they can control the people who will form any Palestinian 'entity', i.e. no terror attacks on Israel for a considerable time. What that time would be I leave open but lets start with 6 months.

This gives the game away, mein herr.

A time limit on a feeling of national safety and security?
You just gave Osama a perfect out...
He can promise not to fly any more airplanes into our skyscrapers for 6 months and all is forgiven?
Well, it's a start... (smirk)

What planet are you from, anyway?

49 posted on 11/06/2001 3:17:50 PM PST by Publius6961
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To: annalex
Any ideas?

Make their own governments do it.

That sure looks like a circle, jerk, answer to me.

50 posted on 11/06/2001 3:20:31 PM PST by tpaine
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To: ouroboros
Sobran has always been "perplexed" by the Middle East...Sobran STAYS in a state of perplextion about many things ...he is a back seat driver who believes the answers to all our nation's ills are in hiding our heads in the sand, but his cult following of several dozen libertarian worshipers fall at his feet and light candles with every new article.
51 posted on 11/06/2001 3:21:49 PM PST by Moby Grape
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To: AshleyMontagu
If Iraqis were constantly trying to influence our government's policy in the MidEast would that fact be off limits for debate?
The Iraquis don't do that, the Saudis and their oil influence our government's policy in the MidEast.
Oops...is that off limits for debate?
52 posted on 11/06/2001 3:23:17 PM PST by philman_36
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To: malarski; GROUCHOTWO; Zviadist; kristinn; Free the USA; struwwelpeter; Black Jade; Carry_Okie...
Bumpskowicz
53 posted on 11/06/2001 3:23:49 PM PST by CommiesOut
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: Architect
Congratulations.
You managed to get every one of the verifiable facts wrong; not just most, but all.

Maybe even the petunia part.
Anyone who has the interest and takes the time to look into history the last 100 years can see for himself. Not too complicated.
I would recommend, however, staying away from Muslim web sites and university sites endowed by Arab money.

55 posted on 11/06/2001 3:26:00 PM PST by Publius6961
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Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: annalex
Those on Israel's territory who commit crimes against life or property are imprisoned or expelled out of the country.

Maybe you need to explain how it is a crime to be terrorized into fleeing your home.

Israeli citizens of Arab descent have the same rights as all Israeli citizens.

BZZZZZT. Wrong answer.

57 posted on 11/06/2001 3:35:51 PM PST by Architect
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To: Publius6961
Congratulations.
You managed to show the self-satisfied smugness which permiates all of your posts. The lack of content too.
58 posted on 11/06/2001 3:41:26 PM PST by Architect
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Comment #59 Removed by Moderator

Comment #60 Removed by Moderator


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