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PRES. BUSH MUST HEAR FROM US, NOW! (America Must Not Abandon Israel!)
Capitol Hill Prayer Alert ^ | 10/25/01

Posted on 10/25/2001 7:17:34 PM PDT by truthandlife

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To: BenF
So much so that some Jew's won't even use the G word - they use Hashem (which mean The Name) instead.
161 posted on 10/27/2001 7:45:10 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: Toilet Duck
What is fair and why is Israel so unwilling to share these sacred places? Whilst Israel controls these places they are free to all - except that Jews are restricted access to the Temple Mount.

When Jordan controlled the Jewish sacred places in Jerusalem, Jews were not allowed access. In fact the Jordanians destroyed every Synagogue in Jerusalem. They destoyed the Jewish cemetary and used the tombstones to pave their officer's toilets.

162 posted on 10/27/2001 7:52:19 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: WileyCoyote22
Yep - but the was pre-positioning supplies for 101st airborne for jump-off to Iraq.
163 posted on 10/27/2001 7:58:14 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: Reagan Man; BenF
When I first read it I thought he was referring to Toilet Duck not America. Why are you having so much trouble with Ben's explanation - it's consistent with the context of his reply to TD.

Some of us are well acquianted with TD whose NIC is consistent with his credo. Eventually (if not already) you will be so as well.

164 posted on 10/27/2001 8:18:12 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: DittoJed2
I belong to a religion that doesn't require faith or a beliefe in something unless it's true for me. It is all about real spiritual development and not about being "good" to go to heaven. One example is we say thou shalt not murder instead of thou shalt not kill. My religion will not hesitate to harm another in a just cause.
165 posted on 10/27/2001 8:24:34 AM PDT by conway
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To: a_witness
The Jewish State owes it's very existence to the USA and you should never forget that.

And the USA owes it's very existence to the Jews and should never forget that.

General Washington's financial advisor and assistant was a Jewish man by the name of Hyam Salomon. During the cold winter of Valley Forge when American soldiers were freezing and running out of food, it was Hyam who marshaled Jews in America and Europe to provide money in relief aid to these stranded American troops and turned the course of history. Without this help, our "army" would have perished before they could have defeated the British. If you take a one dollar bill out of your pocket and look at the back at the Eagle, the stars above the Eagle's head are in the six point Star of David to honor Jews. If you turn the Eagle upside down you will see a configuration in the likeness of a Menorah...both at the insistence of George Washington who said we should never forget the Jewish people."

166 posted on 10/27/2001 8:27:02 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: conway
I belong to a religion that doesn't require faith or a beliefe in something unless it's true for me. It is all about real spiritual development and not about being "good" to go to heaven. One example is we say thou shalt not murder instead of thou shalt not kill. My religion will not hesitate to harm another in a just cause.
Truth is truth. I know that isn't popular, but what is true is true regardless if you believe it or not. I could not believe in the law of gravity, but if I jump off a building I will know it is true by experience. Absolute truth does exist. You can not deny that. You can not live unless it does exist and your philosophy just expressed is not liveable. All of man's religions are about being "good." Whether that is to go to heaven or whether that is to attain a higher spiritual state or whatever, it is all about being good. Human history shows man is NOT good. The Bible portrays a message about the person of man that is completely consistant with the reality of human beings. If it has it right there, it is worth checking out to see where else it has it right. Your statement regarding murder/kill is biblical. The idea in the 10 commandments is thou shalt not murder. Justifiable homicide is sometimes necessary and the carrying out of justice is also scriptural.
167 posted on 10/27/2001 8:59:07 AM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: anapikoros
#161 should have been addressed to Will - and I saw later that you already knew this.
168 posted on 10/27/2001 9:14:41 AM PDT by anapikoros
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To: DittoJed2
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Notice it identifies them as the people called out of Egypt. His covenant towards them remains and their sin will be forgiven as they come to Him as Lord and Savior and the blindness which now is is overcome by the blood of Christ.

These passages do not support your theory. The New Covenent does supplant the old and makes it null and void. The New Covenent is "not according to the covenent that I made with their Fathers."

Yes the Gentiles were grafted into the tree, but the same passage (Romans 11) that reveals this truth says that the Jews were CUT OFF from the tree because they rejected Christ. They lost the promise of God. They will be grafted back in only when they become Christians. And furthermore, St. Paul makes perfectly clear elesewhere that in the New Covenent the status of Jewish believers is no different from that of Gentile believers. There is neither Jew nor Greek, woman or man, slave nor free in Christ.

The time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled, and God's chosen remnant of Jews will once again enjoy a covenant relationship with Him and will at last fulfill the destiny that God called them to.

Those Jews who convert to Christ will again enjoy a covenant relationship, and it will be the same relationship as that of Gentile Christians. For there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free in Chrsit.

And finanly, if you think that the Book of Revelation is to be taken literally, you are at odds with 2000 years of Chrsitian exegesis. No ancient Christian tradition (and no, Evangelical Protestant Fundamentalists don't count) treated it this way.

169 posted on 10/27/2001 10:45:11 AM PDT by traditionalist
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To: DittoJed2
Amen.
170 posted on 10/27/2001 11:49:04 AM PDT by conway
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Damn you are so consistent....and witty in a sly underhanded way.

greetings!!!!

171 posted on 10/27/2001 3:32:35 PM PDT by wardaddy
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To: traditionalist
The text you quote specifies a new covenant with the house of Israel. One cannot replace the house of Israel with the Gentiles and remain textually, intellectually or spiritually honest. If you (try) to break the Word of God in the books many call the Old Testament you can hardly argue for its inerrancy in the books many call the New Testament.
172 posted on 10/27/2001 7:22:50 PM PDT by a_witness
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To: traditionalist
For there is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free in Chrsit.

Are you a man
or a woman ?

173 posted on 10/27/2001 7:23:51 PM PDT by a_witness
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To: a_witness
The New Covenent IS with the house of Israel, the New Israel. In Gallatians St. Paul specifically states that all those who believe in Christ are now true the heirs of Abraham (i.e. the house of Israel). The Israel of the Old Testament is not being replaced be the Gentiles. Rather, those Gentiles who believe in Christ are ADDED to Israel, and those Jews who reject Christ are cut off from it.

I am a man. I am also a gentile. One does not loose one's sexual or ethnic identity as a result of faith. The meaning of the passage is that men, women, jews, gentiles, slaves, and freemen, if they accept Christ, are all equal in the sight of God.

174 posted on 10/29/2001 12:32:45 PM PST by traditionalist
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To: traditionalist
I think you miscontrue the promise that God made to Abraham that all the nations would be blessed through him with the promises (and curses) made to Israel in covenants.
    Nonetheless, if you think that physical Israel is of no account,
  1. why are women not allowed to be priests, bishops, or popes in the Roman Catholic Church if all are equal
  2. why does Saul refer to himself as Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; if there is no nation of Israel
  3. why did Yeshua say But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. if there is no nation of Israel.
  4. The Scriptures are stained with Israel. You cannot replace her. You can betray her.

175 posted on 10/30/2001 7:43:27 PM PST by a_witness
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To: a_witness
why are women not allowed to be priests, bishops, or popes in the Roman Catholic Church if all are equal

All believers are equal in the site of God, but they all have different vocations (See St. Paul's writings on there being different parts, but one body). A woman's vocation does not include the priesthood, and that's pretty explicit in both scripture and tradition. On the other hand, a man's vocation cannot include motherhood. The priest's status is not above that of a layman (or laywoman). Both are equal in the eyes of God. Neither is more blessed or loved by God. You might argue that Jewish Christians have a different vocation from Gentile Christians, and that would be consistent with the equality of all Christians, but there is nothing in neither Scripture nor Tradition that would support this theory.

why does Saul refer to himself as Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Why would he not refer to himself as such? I don't get your point.

In the passage you are referring to, St. Paul speaks of his conversion from a Pharesee who perscuted Christians to an Apostle of Christ. He includes his background as a "Hebrew of Hebrews" to emphasize how dramatic this change was.

if there is no nation of Israel

When did I say there is no nation of Israel? Of course, the ethnic group continues to exist, and will one day be converted to Christ. Until that day, however, those who refuse to convert are cut off from the blessings of God. After they do convert, they will not be any more or any less blessed than Gentile Christians. The New Israel includes both those of the physical Israel who converted to Christ plus those Gentiles who accept him.

why did Yeshua say But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

The answer to your question is in Romans 11.

The Scriptures are stained with Israel. You cannot replace her. You can betray her.

1.Please show me where in scripture or tradition where Christians are commanded to treat Jews who reject Christ with more deference than other non-believers. (I'm not suggesting, BTW, that Christians have lisence to persecute or hate unconverted Jews. My position is merely that we are not called to treat them any differently from other non-Christians; that is to say, we are called to love them and to preach the Gospel to them in the hopes that God may move them to accept their Messiah and savior.)

2. Please show me where in scripture or tradition it is taught that Jewish Christians are more blessed or have a different status than Gentile Christians. No OT citations please, since we are dealing with Jews who rejected the Messiah, and this topic is not addressed in the OT.

176 posted on 10/31/2001 2:15:19 PM PST by traditionalist
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To: truthandlife
The U.S. has paid too much already in lives and treasure for supporting Israeli aggression. Now, the only reasonable way out is to force Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories and make it consummate a just peace with the Palestinians.
177 posted on 10/31/2001 2:38:25 PM PST by ThreeOfSeven
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To: ThreeOfSeven
the only reasonable way out is to force Israel to withdraw from the occupied territories and make it consummate a just peace with the Palestinians.

That is laughable. The Palestinians do not want peace they want to push Israel into the sea.

178 posted on 11/01/2001 6:23:04 AM PST by truthandlife
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To: truthandlife
That is laughable. The Palestinians do not want peace they want to push Israel into the sea.

To the contrary, Israel has been the aggressor from the beginning, ethnically cleansing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians so Israel could have a Jewish majority. Nevertheless, moderate Palestinians accept the existence of Israel proper, the Jewish and Palestinian democracy behind the Green Line.

They support a just two-state resolution of the conflict, which would end the Israeli occupation and create a Palestinian state with sovereignty over the entirety of the West Bank, Gaza, and Arab East Jerusalem. Meanwhile, Israel continues its aggressive ways, expanding illegal Israeli settlements and intensifying its tyranny over Palestinians in the occupied territories.

179 posted on 11/01/2001 7:30:49 AM PST by ThreeOfSeven
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To: ThreeOfSeven
Who are you? Arafat's spokesperson? I am sorry but you will have to share your pro-Palestinian propaganda on another forum because people don't buy it here.
180 posted on 11/01/2001 7:33:58 AM PST by truthandlife
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