Alan Dershowitz: Why Fear National ID Cards?

The New York Times ^ | 10/13/2001 | Alan Dershowitz

[monkeyshine]

Exactly. I don't know why they call him a great legal mind. No right to anonymity my ass! So the next time you are walking down the street, the cop can stop you and ask for your ID? What crap. The guy has become so obsessive about national socialism that he cannot possibly remain consistent to the civil libertarian cause.

[Dr. Frank fan]

For most of us, who live ordinary lives, the government (especially the IRS)can find us whenever it wants and can find everything about us, including the fact they we paid our light bill two days late last month.

Ok, if this is already true then the point is moot. National ID Card is a spurious waste of money and manpower, if I am to believe your own statements.

The government can not find illegal aliens,

Sure they could. They just don't want to.

terrorists,

Ditto. The government knew about the terrorist connections of many of the 9/11 perpretrators, but they weren't deported or anything for some reason.

people driving drunk without a license or insurance

Say what? People are cited for DUI and/or driving without a license and/or driving without insurance all the time. How would a National ID Card help this, by the way? What if the unlicensed uninsured drunk driver also refuses to get a National ID Card (and presumably, he would)? What exactly has been gained?

Yes, I would give up a little privacy -- empower government a little more

Thanks for the autobiographical information. I'm still gonna say "no". And just because you'd be willing to "give up a little privacy" to "empower government a little more" doesn't give you the right to force me to do the same.

to enable them to address some of these problems, ~especially~ the flood of illegals.

It won't address that problem, because like I said, the people in government don't want to stop the flood of illegals. If they did, they would have already.

[The Schnoid from Sheboygan]

Says the "civil libertarian"....yup, because of the calendar, we are now living in the Age of Terrorism (what, is the Age of Aquarius over already??), and now therefore, a Right has vanished. Just accept it, Mr. Dershowitz says so, and look: he's pointing at the calendar! How can you argue with that?

Reminds me of a quote from G.K. Chesterton:

"An imbecile habit has arisen in modern controversy of saying that
such and such a creed can be held in one age but cannot be held in
another. Some dogma, we are told, was credible in the twelfth century,
but is not credible in the twentieth. You might as well say that a certain
philosophy can be believed on Mondays, but cannot be believed on
Tuesdays. You might as well say of a view of the cosmos that it was
suitable to half-past three, but not suitable for half-past four. What
a man can believe depends on his philosophy, not upon the clock
or the century."

[monkeyshine]

Great quote, and right on target. There is an incredible amount of vanity in our species, some deserved, some that goes a little too far.

[The Schnoid from Sheboygan]

He mentioned that he was part of an advisory groupo that advised the Canadian government...

This just about says all we need to know, in order to assess (and reject) Alan Dipshitwitz's advocacy for a "national ID card." He can tatoo it on his Dumocrat ass, for all I care.

[LadyDoc]

If Dershowitz, who defended that murderer OJ, thinks ID cards are good, then they must be a terrible idea.

You know, you can easily buy a green card or a drivers' license illegally. The FBI can track you via credit card. And pick you up.

Once they know who you are and where you are, the next step is control.

[uglybiker]

Why Fear National ID Cards?

Because Alan Dershowitz likes 'em. That's enough reason to cause me concern.

[Huck]

That's very cute, old friend, but I have neither advocated or decried the National ID card idea. All I have done is a) point out that I don't see the added value, given that we already have a unique id (ss#) and photo passports, etc. And b) I have asked how an ID card will add any new violation of liberties. I still haven't received an answer. I have had folks say that the ID card would be used in ill ways, but the same arguments could be applied to any existing IDs. So, I continue to ask, what specific lliberties are undermined by the existence of a nat'l ID card, and in what way does it differ from what we already have? Maybe where you come from asking sensible questions=advocacy, but for me, I will withold an opinion until I have some facts. regards,

[Huck]

Incidentally, I think my own thoughts follow those of Dr. Frank on this thread regarding the effectiveness of an ID card and the fact that we already have workable mechanisms in place (driver's license, ss#, passports, visas, etc). An ID seems to be, if nothing else, a waste of resources. Other than the slippery slope argument, which can be applied to ANY government program, I don't see where an ID card is WORSE than what we have, but I am sure someone will point it out to me.

[OWK]

I have asked how an ID card will add any new violation of liberties. I still haven't received an answer.

With the National ID card as a means of identifying citizens, will come the time honored totalitarian tradition of "your papers please".

Vhat... no papers? Onto zee truck.

If you don't believe this, then you haven't been paying attention to the functional characteristics of repressive totalitarian states over the last hundred years. Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and the rest of the gang were great fans of the national ID card.

The United States of America was attacked by terrorists. It's response should not be further penalty on the liberty of it's own citizens.

[AppyPappy]

I'm sure some Dershowitz type was saying the same thing about stars on the lapel. "What's wrong with a star? It's just a star. It's our symbol. We should be proud to wear it".

[OWK]

I'm sure some Dershowitz type was saying the same thing about stars on the lapel. "What's wrong with a star? It's just a star. It's our symbol. We should be proud to wear it".

I was thinking along the same lines. You would think that of all people, those with a Jewish heritage would be particularly atune to the dangers of this kind of governmental power.

[mombonn]

For a real thrill, listen to the replay of Washington Journal. They discussed this article this morning - you'll be thrilled to hear lots of sheeple expressing their support of a national ID.

sheesh

[OWK]

For a real thrill, listen to the replay of Washington Journal. They discussed this article this morning - you'll be thrilled to hear lots of sheeple expressing their support of a national ID.

Sad.

If the concept gets as much as 15% support here, then you know that the liberal left are just loving the idea.

Restriction of American liberty. Another terrorist victory.

[CWRWinger]

I am against these natonal ID schemes. It is an assult on humanity and communities and will only promote further isolation of people from each other. IMO, with such a system in place, you will not have any reason to know who your neighbors are, who you work with, etc. It will be implied that the government sanctions that person.

I have already written my representatives and told them I will resist a national ID system.

[Storm Orphan]

I still haven't received an answer.

Oh bull, old friend. It's been answered a dozen times.

The gathering of the necessary proof means of fingerprints, biometrics and other info is a violation,
and the SS has the virtue of its use being restricted under law and serious penalty.

[Storm Orphan]

Washington Journal provides me motivation on weekends to clean my guns, even when I'm feeling lazy.

[sargon]

Dershowitz is a totalitarian of the highest order.

I agree, and it bears repeating.

[Dr. Frank fan]

So, I continue to ask, what specific lliberties are undermined by the existence of a nat'l ID card, and in what way does it differ from what we already have?

Under the current "ID cards" we have, one is not required to carry one with them everywhere they go.

Presumably this would be the case with any functional National ID Card scheme - thus taking away a specific liberty (the liberty to walk outside without carrying a plastic card).

What's that you say? "No silly, you wouldn't be required to carry National ID Card wherever you go" ? Really? Then what's the point of having them? I mean, if I'm not required to carry it wherever I go, then neither are the evil bad terrorists - so how will the police catch them using this great new technology?

Either National ID Cards will violate liberty, or they will not have the benefit which its proponents foresee in the first place. Either, or. Fair enough?