US puts squeeze on Israel

Guardian Unlimited ^ | 10/12/01 | Ewen MacAskill and Suzanne Goldenberg

[Seti 1]

Once we are raptured the whole world will hate the Jews.

Man, are you a winner. Do us all a favor and crawl back over to one of the religious threads. Didn't you know we have an agreement? We don't bother you;you don't bother us. See how that works?

[monkeyshine]

One has to wonder why Arafat would accept now what he rejected earlier

Yes, one must wonder. As is par for this region, some Arabs are causing lots of problems, but other Arabs are needed to fight them, so Israel gets the blame.

To gain some leverage in the PR war, Israel should re-propose the basics of Barak's plan, but add some conditions: full recognition and exchange of embassies with Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Yemen, Morocco, & Algeria. It should also add removal of all discriminatory UN motions, and insist on participation in the revolving seats of the Security Council (Israel is the only nation that is not allowed to serve on the Security Council). It should also insist that the PA become a Constitutional Democracy. It will be hard for the west to argue in favor keeping Palestine a dictatorship, and it will force the west to confront our biggest demon -- which has been siding with monarchies, dictators and oppressive rulers to gain economic and political expediency. Human rights such as universal sufferage, freedom of worship, freedom of speech and assembly are ideals we cherish, and the lack of them in the Arab world is Israel's biggest problem of all. Israel has a lot of leverage, IMHO, if she makes this demand in exchange for land/peace.

Barak's plan included soveriegnty over Jerusalem for Israel, with Palestinian administrative control over east Jerusalem. They could make a case to remove this from the proposal given the risks to security as seen from all the suicide bombers over the year, but imho there is no alternative to a Palestinian state. It's now just a question of what kind of state... and in this Israel has a lot of leverage.

[Seti 1]

Best laugh I've had all day, Whig. Actually, I can't hack their breath.

[marbren]

Does anyone know if President Bush believes in replacement theology?

[Fred25]

Look, the Gentiles and the United States saved the whole world in 1945. We saved the “nation of Israel”. Go read the New Testament. That Old Testament stuff is ancient history about ancient times. You are taking 3,000 year old quotes out of context and you are tying to apply them to a commercial corporate business-oriented country called “Israel” today. The Israel of today is not the “nation of Israel” of Old Testament times. You’ve been hoodwinked by Hollywood and New York media propaganda.

[marbren]

The fact that Israel exists is a miracle of GOD

[Seti 1]

it's giving Bush the finger

You could be right but I'm seeing it differently. I think fate has dropped into his lap the kind of opportunity it gave Lincoln. It will depend on how big a man he is whether he comes out on top as one of our great presidents or as a failed presidency. Time will tell but I am very encouraged at the moment. He is growing daily--you can see it. And he is tough. He's keeping his administration in line under TREMENDOUS pressure, keeping his coalition together and keeping Congress on a short leash. That's quite an act.

[jonatron]

The Mitchell Process will go foreward.[sic]

We're still waiting for the IRA to turn over it's weapons.

[marbren]

I agree, If he sticks with Israel God will bless us.

[Seti 1]

Seti, can't you read?

I've been reading for quite a while now. Your improbable scenario was that Israel was telling us to fall into line or they would use their nukes. (They did that once you know. It's called the Samson option). By the time things came to that pass it's quite possible that Israel would not be an ally and some of those other countries might be. I could see us use our nukes to take out the silos. But the scenario is a bit silly so the speculation is too.

I think it is important to realize that it is not ordained by God that the US will protect Israel. That relationship is showing much wear and tear. We might be told to fall into line once too often by that pipsqueak piece of desert.

[Seti 1]

A very nice, thoughtful post.

[Fred25]

The fact that anyone exists is a Miracle of God. But we, the United States, saved the world in 1945, with God’s blessings. The secular corporate country of Israel today is not quite what God had in mind back in Old Testament times, in my humble opinion. Read about Jesus and the tables at the temple. The modern country seems to me to be too secular to be Divinely approved and sanctioned. George Bush is not going to let the Palestinians overrun Israel and take back their own property which the Israelis stole. But he’s not going to let the Israelis commit genocide on all the Arabs just because they want their land.

[boycott]

Agreed. You don't compromise with wild animals.

[Bob Burnett]

People are tired of Israel and its inability to act in concert with its neighbors. It is a bully state and for a people that know persecution, they act in hellish ways that bring disgrace and dishonor to western values. You would expect some example of human decency from those people. Instead, just baseness and betrayal.

[marbren]

This isn't about the people of Israel being special or good. It is about God keeping his promises.