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Empire America? - YES!
PipeBombNews.com ^ | October 9, 2001 | William A. Mayer - Editor & Publisher, PipeBombNews.com

Posted on 10/09/2001 11:25:39 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic

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To: ignatz_q
I don't disagree though historians never write of some of the truly fine momements such as Grover Cleveland's courageous refusal to annex Hawaii (though offered to him on a silver platter), or John Adams efforts to avoid a war with a France, or Warren Harding's support for the most radical arms limitation agreement in American history: the Washington Naval Treaty. It seems that, for some historians, the only "fine moments" that mentioned are those that get us into war.
41 posted on 10/09/2001 2:56:27 PM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: freefly
freefly

I had no idea that freerepubies were so well....devoted to Pat Buchanans silly ideas about governance.

The attack on America is OUR fault, it's because of our desire to build an empire?

Hardly

The attack occurred because we were perceived as weak by a group who hates our lifestyle.

If anyone is an armchair general it is Pat Buchanan, he has accomplished nothing (aside from an alliance with an avowed commie in his last ill failed bid for the presidency)since his service to tricky dicky.

The idea of an empire is founded primarily upon the idea of a defensive perimeter, a rather basic defensive concept. Buchanan thinks that the world will leave us alone if we pull inward and do what our enemies want us to do.

Buchanan wants us to toss Israel overboard to satisfy Arafat, that is an immoral position as far as I am concerned. Do you really think that the Taliban and other Islamic cult crazies will give up just because we sell her out? No, they will only demand more until we have nothing left to offer and that is when this country will be finished.

America faces two choices, take the reins of power and exercise them wisely or perish.

42 posted on 10/09/2001 3:11:48 PM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: all
I'm sure you've all heard this before, but it seems appropriate.

Once There Was A Great Nation!

It was founded by the pilgrims who decided to leave their own country, which didn't encourage freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and freedom of the individual. So they migrated to an uncivilized land inhabited only by savages. The rock where they landed was to become a national shrine - and one of the most famous monuments in the world.

They drove off the natives, built rude shelters and houses of worship, meanwhile setting aside a special day to give thanks.

These pilgrims - all stern, austere men - believed in their God, but they also believed in work. They established schools under religious leaders that, in a way, became the first public, free education in the world.

Through hard, determined labor they forged a colony while the rest of the world chuckled.

But the pilgrims persevered. Intolerant of wrongdoing, they used gallows to punish criminals. In their day-to-day activities they had no patience for the weak and degenerate, who, if pampered, become the cancer of a nation.

Shortly, these pilgrims engaged in trade and commerce as their community grew. In the process, they became moderately prosperous.

Other colonists came and established other communities. And some of the noblest words ever written began to surface. Facades of our modern government buildings bear some of the legends written back then: "liberty," "justice," "freedom of worship.

Then one of the older nations sent tax agents to exploit the colonists. Alarmed, the colonists sent their greatest men as representatives to a general assembly, choosing a gentleman farmer as their leader. He united them and shook off the shackles of oppression as they won the fight against the "old world" and became a strong nation. That farmer is known as the "father of his country." Today, a famous U.S. city is named after him.

The new nation formed two houses of government. The more powerful was the Senate, whose members could be elected only if they were men of probity [integrity], honor, patriotism, and religion. The nation became a republic, though it is a republic no longer.

Ultimately, a civil war divided the fledgling country. Its leader, who tried to keep the republic united, was assassinated in the shadow of government buildings.

Eventually, many of the nations senators became ambitious for power. They began to make deals with leaders of important factions.

And the republic now became entangled in alliances with foreign nations. The alliances brought wars; the wars brought taxes. But the citizens didn't seem to mind. War, after all, also increased trade and industry. And, besides, the new taxes affected only the rich.

Farmers rebelled, sending petitions for subsidies, price supports. Government, wanting support for its own schemes, bought up the surplus crops and stored them in warehouses, where they rotted. Not to be outdone, industrialists were next to ask for tax benefits.

Finally, the government became all powerful. It guaranteed to protect the people from all forces of nature. And taxation grew and grew. Bureaucracy thrived as free housing, fiee food, free entertainment came next. The middle class declined under the added tax burdens. Crime became so commonplace that it was dangerous to walk the streets at night.

A crippled man led the nation into more wars and foreign entanglements. Patriots became known as radicals.

A general, who had been victimized by the government, pleaded with the nation to remember her past, to return to honor, to decent government, to the principles ofthe founding fathers. The people scoffed, and he died, bitterly thinking his anguished thoughts.

An honest senator dared to speak out for a halt to foreign subversion and to constant foreign aid and draining away from the people's money. The public at large recoiled, branding him a reactionary.

The nation fell deeper into debt. It joined a league of the world with enemies that exploited her. She increased taxes to send her wheat to those enemies. And she devalued her currency, substituting base materials for precious metals in her coins.

She became allied with powerful barbarians in still another stupid war. She sent "experts" to school the barbarians in the latest scientific discoveries.

The nation was now totally corrupt. Its middle class was finally dead. The barbarians moved in... and took over. And they destroyed the civilizations. That nation's name?

Ancient Rome.

Identification notes:

The pilgrim's rock - Foundation of the Temple of Jupiter
The gentleman farmer - Cincinatus
The assassinated leader - Julius Caesar
The general - Marc Anthony
The honest senator - Cicero
Author unknown

43 posted on 10/09/2001 3:19:27 PM PDT by winna
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To: winna
I know why the author is unkown, the "history" contained in this story is a crock and he/she probably didn't want anyone to know who penned it.

Rome fell because she became corrupt and indolent, she failed to maintain her armies conscripting others to do her fighting.

To those of you who want to follow Pat Buchanan into battle I wish you well, but I seriously advise you to make out your last will and testament before you pick up your pitchforks.

44 posted on 10/09/2001 3:37:53 PM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: Greg Weston
Pat Buchanan's argues that America can simply walk away from foreign squabbles, using the verbiage from George Washington’s farewell address that warned of “entangling foreign alliances." GO PAT GO!!!

NO PAT NO!!!

45 posted on 10/09/2001 4:02:06 PM PDT by The Grammarian
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: johnqueuepublic
The attack occurred because we were perceived as weak by a group who hates our lifestyle.

What is it that is being missed here?

The attack took place because:

1)-We have maintained an embargo on Iraq for 10+ years, which has resulted in the deaths of perhaps 1,000,000 people, mostly old people and children (and we need to protect the children , don't we?).

2)-We continue to support Israel, to the exclusion of the Palestanian people, and

3-We continue to maintain troops in Saudi Arabia.

He didn't say anything about McDonald's or our religious beliefs.

If that's what bin Laden says.... shall we take him at his word?

And if so, what can we do to avoid WWIII?

47 posted on 10/09/2001 4:24:34 PM PDT by Beenliedto
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To: johnqueuepublic
"I have seen much of the rest of the world. It is brutal and dark, Rome is the LIGHT."

I'm not for a real Empire, but by putting the fear of God in certain people, and ignoring the "wretched hive of scum and villainy"(the UN) we could do a lot of good.

48 posted on 10/09/2001 4:31:16 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: johnqueuepublic
We are human beings, just as the Romans were also, human beings.

No doubt the Romans believed themselves to be different also, as they fed Christians to the lions, and others that the 'Romans' deemed unworthy.

King Solomon said, 'There is nothing new under the Sun, no, nothing.'

We dont need to follow the playbook of the Romans,

OUR FOUNDING FATHERS LEFT TO US A ROAD MAP THAT WORKS.

49 posted on 10/09/2001 4:53:47 PM PDT by KeepTheEdge
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To: Skywalk
>I'm not for a real Empire, but by putting the fear of God in certain people, and ignoring the "wretched hive of scum and villainy"(the UN) we could do a lot of good.

Yes, but look at the reality. Our soldiers aren't fighting for God and country. When our soldiers pull out of the Middle East the only aspects of "our" country that will remain will be things like Planned Parenthood clinics, UN relief agencies, NOW activists, and global businessmen making deals with local strongmen.

Just yesterday, CNN or MSNBC had a long interview with a former KGB chief, describing how the US needs to "reform" its intelligence agencies. Just today some news channel did a long piece on how the Pakistan government stays in power -- it's a military dictatorship and it stays in power with military might.

This is not just how America is "seen" overseas. This is how America IS overseas. Adopting policies from the most hated, oppressive police-state scum that have ever existed, and making friends not with populist governments, but with military dictatorships. (And now we have NATO plane "patrolling" our own borders.)

"Putting the fear of God in certain people" would be a great idea. It would be great if we could start with the Establishment people making the decisions right here in the US.

But I don't believe -- and I don't think _anyone_ believes -- that it's going to happen.

Mark W.

50 posted on 10/09/2001 5:05:24 PM PDT by MarkWar
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To: johnqueuepublic
Who will fight and die for your empire?I would happily defy and rebel against it. The American Republic is what I would fight for, not the American Empire. Giving the life of my son for an empire, American or otherwise, is a thought that fills me with disgust.
51 posted on 10/09/2001 5:10:34 PM PDT by The Irishman
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To: MarkWar
It's sad but I believe you are correct. Considering that much of the violation of our freedoms here could be eliminated by an Executive Order, it's apparent it will never happen. If I were elected President I'd simply take much of the teeth out of many of the Executive Branch(basically all enforcement agencies/bureaus) by signing it out of existence. To be sure, there'd be an outcry, but at least the action would provoke debate and the results might be welcomed.
52 posted on 10/09/2001 5:18:32 PM PDT by Skywalk
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To: The Irishman
Wise words from The Irishman.

America First!!!

53 posted on 10/09/2001 7:11:37 PM PDT by Greg Weston
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To: Beenliedto
Oh I get it, as usual its our fault for being smart and efficient. Screw the Turd World, they have made their bed let them steep in it. I would much rather live in a world where the soldier patting down my airline carry-on speaks English and carries an M16-A2. You Buchananites, libertarians and other assorted crazies can pray to Usama as he rains down a nuclear holocaust. What fools you are.
54 posted on 10/09/2001 8:34:35 PM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: Gerfang
"We liberated Cuba and the Philippines from the Spanish Empire. We saved Europe from the Nazi Empire. We fought a cold war against the Soviet Empire."

And now we must save the middle East from the corrupt, facist, despotic tyrannies, that have caused so much human suffering.

We don't need an American empire, we need to finish what our founding fathers started, and make freedom, liberty, and justice for all, possible for the whole world.

55 posted on 10/09/2001 9:14:20 PM PDT by Bob Mc
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To: Bob Mc
America is already an empire folks, you cant do what we have the abiltiy to do and not be so.

I think that the idea behind the article was we should embrace the idea since we are already being accused of it.

No one wants a fifth reich and I think the author carefully states his concerns along those lines.

What I cant for the life of me "get" is why you think your demi-god Pat B has the answer, that you should cast off Israel and bow to Usama's demands. That will always lead to tyranny and an American empire may be the ONLY alternative - if you want to take up arms agains that idea then I think our short experiment in self government has failed.

56 posted on 10/10/2001 6:46:35 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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Comment #57 Removed by Moderator

To: johnqueuepublic
"I had no idea that freerepubies were so well....devoted to Pat Buchanans silly ideas about governance."

No, I think it is that FReepers are devoted to our founding father's ideas about Constitutional government.

"The attack on America is OUR fault, it's because of our desire to build an empire? "

Not really.
It is the fault of a group of religious fanatics that have used our less-than-honorable
actions around the world to justify taking action against us.
Of course, they ignored the good things that we have done, but the truth is that
they had plenty of ammunition to use against us when pushing the propaganda to their people.
Some people in this country DO want to build an American empire.
The NWO bunch, the UN socialists, World trade crowd just to point at a few.
They have no problem wandering around the world sticking their noses in everyone else's business.
It's what they DO.
Of course, all of them want to pay for it out of my (our) pockets,
use my (our) children to fight the battles, and want me to give up my freedom
to get them their profit and ruling elite status.
If they were using their own money, I wouldn't care very much.
OTOH, if they got whacked as the result, they'd best not come crying to me.

"The attack occurred because we were perceived as weak by a group who hates our lifestyle"

Preceived as weak?
I think that vulnerable might be a better word.
One of "their boys" took advantage of that (for a variety of reasons).
They felt like they had to back him or lose what credibility they had with their people.
Now they are paying the price.
Hates our lifestyle?
Yes, the Taliban "leaders" hate our lifestyle, at least for the masses.
Our lifestyle would lose them their backing as soon as those people no longer
had to rely on the Taliban in order to eat.
The people themselves would LOVE to have our lifestyle.
(Maybe excluding the homosex and abortion but a lot of Christians would be right there with them on those issues.)
Notice where the Taliban gets the food to feed the people. (They arn't producing it themselves.)

As far as Buchanan goes, I notice that he does have a lot of backing.
I suspect that it's because there are very few in the political limelight that are NOT democratic socialists.
Right now, most come in 2 flavors:
liberal socialists
conservative socialists
Both promote big government, more taxes to pay for it, and intrusion in every aspect of our lives.
People are getting sick of it.
It's NOT what this country is supposed to be about.

"Buchanan thinks that the world will leave us alone if we pull inward and do what our enemies want us to do. "

I don't keep track of Buchanan and what he thinks.
Certainly just "doing what our enemies want us to" isn't good policy,
but current policy involves sending our food, technology, and taxes to prop
up "leaders" who, when they don't geek for the next administration, become
the next enemy that we "have to fight".
That CERTAINLY isn't good policy.
At least, it isn't for us citizens.
OTOH, big government REQUIRES an enemy or citizens start wondering why they should be paying for it.
Ever wonder why the fed keeps declaring a "war on (you name it)"?
It's to justify their existence.
Otherwise they'd have to get real jobs.

America doesn't really NEED anything that most other countries have to offer.
We can get along without them far better than they can get along without us.
They can trade with us, or they can do without the best at the best price.
As long as their governments are socialist or fascist, (and as long as ours is NOT),
they cannot compete with us in the long run.
When our citizens can work, earn a lot of money, invest it back into our
economy, earn more money, etc, then our country becomes stronger.
When our country becomes stronger and the socialist countries become weaker
(and, without our support they WILL), we end up having little to worry about when they threaten us.
Screw with us and it will be time for a new administration in that country.
If they treat their people poorly, they might find them armed and wanting a
change to a successful system: the American "keep what you earn" system.

American empire is nothing more than another face of the NWO.
It will guarantee that never-ending war will decend on us.
It might even result in the "last war".
Either way, it has nothing to do with what this country is all about.
We don't need or want it.
58 posted on 10/10/2001 7:05:07 AM PDT by freefly
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To: freefly
You make some very salient points, however one thing I just dont get is the apparent obsession with the NWO.

GHWB coined the term I think with the idea that it meant that we were the only superpower left and that the burden of defending freedom fell on our broad shoulders.

This is the core of Pat's appeal I think, it allows him to run around blabbering about shipping jobs to Mexico and UN helicopters hovering over Georgia (or whatever locale is currently popular)

It is unavoidable that buggy whip jobs either disappear or are shippped off to less labor costly nations as long as we demand the cheapest products available - it has nothing in my opinion to do with some grand conspiracy to kill US jobs.

American empire is here already, so we might as well empbrace is because the rest of the world is going to hate us regardless.

Regarding conservatie socialists and liberal socialist, that is a rather non precise method of dissing everyone - to a great degree it is the fault of the public for sending idiots to Congress like Pat McDermott of Wash St. and Barbara Boxer from Calif.

There is a difference between the Dems and the Repubs, the Libertarian party is a disaster and that explains why they have about 2 bucks in their war chest for the next election.

59 posted on 10/10/2001 7:19:01 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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To: LLAN-DDEUSANT
LLAN

All cliches are cliches because they contain a kernel of truth, its a shorthand way of communcicating an idea, I didnt write the article Im just the guy who posted it because I thought it was intriguing to say to the left, "Ok we are an empire, stick it where the sun dont shine"

If I restated the law of the jungel for the author as, "If in a place that is hot, humid and full of lush tropical vegetation you are faced with barbarians who have already killed members of your family and are intent upon killing the rest, you had better have a way of defending yourself" would you be satisfied?

Doesnt have the same ring though does it?

60 posted on 10/10/2001 7:25:57 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic
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