Empire America? - YES!

PipeBombNews.com ^ | October 9, 2001 | William A. Mayer - Editor & Publisher, PipeBombNews.com

[johnqueuepublic]

Interesting analysis, haven't seen this line taken anywhere.

[ignatz_q]

It's thought provoking, I'll say that much.

Although I do lean towards libertarianism in many respects, global politics is not one of them. Some of the greatest things our country has achieved has been acting in the role of world protector and world builder. Sometimes, we may wish to consider that if we want the hearts and minds of those who live in other nations, we have to do more than just sell them products.

[Common Tator]

If there was only one nation on earth there would only be civil wars.

War and peace are not determined by the number of governments but by the nature of mankind.

[johnqueuepublic]

I too lean towards libertarianism in some respects, but I think that the big "L" Libertarian party has been proven totally wrong with regard to nat'l defense. If we do embark on the road of empire avoiding becoming another reich, as the author underlines, will be the real trick.

[johnqueuepublic]

CT To a certain degree you are correct, however as in Afghanistan an evil government with adherents willing to skin people alive is pretty difficult to resist. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to dial up Usama & Omar's silos and evaporate them with a space based laser weapon?

[Mr.Clark]

Empire almost always leads to the end of freedom. Empire requires a huge and powerful military, based all around the world. Soon, the military would become the most powerful force in American policy, leading to the erosion of civilian control.

[johnqueuepublic]

From the article "A very good symbolic first step might be to send the UN packing; it has become a symbol of anti-Americanism. It exudes racism, is corrupt to its core and is anti-Christian and anti-Semitic to boot - send it to Chernobyl where its red glow will then match its ideology."

[Rustynailww]

the u.n. would never abide such foolish ambitions.

[novakeo]

A very good symbolic first step might be to send the UN packing; it has become a symbol of anti-Americanism. It exudes racism, is corrupt to its core and is anti-Christian and anti-Semitic to boot - send it to Chernobyl where its red glow will then match its ideology.

I'm all for kicking out the UN...but wasn't Rome itself anti-christain, they did nail Christ to the cross and kill most of the Apostles. This guy is all wet, he want's us to be more like the Romans. Rome does not consult Babylon on matters of foreign policy, but it did consult with the corporate elites of that time, sort of like our government. Mayer does not mention the murders of those who wanted power, does not mention the mass murders conducted by the Roman army on the conqured. He also does not mention that absolute power corrupts absolutely and that the wonderful Julius Caesar was the first dictator of the equaly wonderful Roman Empire. Yup he's got it right, lets conguer the freaking world and make everyone alive the subjets of Britney Spears.

[freefly]

Hmmm.
Rule with an iron fist is ok as long as the good guys are in charge.

Yea, right.

Someone is forgetting that we spent the last 8 years under clinton.
Or they remember, but figure that it's ok to be all powerful NWO dictators as long as only "our guys" are in office.

"Our founding fathers could never have conceived the world in which we live,..."

On the contrary, that is why they wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

"...but they would never forgive us if we departed from the ideals that they died for."

100% correct.
And that is EXACTLY what this article is advocating.
It is why I oppose the policy of "American Empire".
It has NOTHING to do with the values that our country was founded on.

[johnqueuepublic]

You make a few good points but flub one also. Constantine and the last of the Roman emperors were Christians. In the final days only 1 out of 10 members of the army were Romans, the rest were foreign conscripts. I think that Gibbon's point was that the Romans got soft and were easy pickings for the brutal barbarians that descended on them.

[Centurion2000]

Interesting analysis, haven't seen this line taken anywhere.

Actually I've been taking this line since 9/11. A true definition of an empire is where one state (metropole) controls the internal and external policies of other states (peripheries).

We could have the Imperial Republic of America in short order and to a degree we do have it.

If these idiots (a good chuck of the Middle East) cant be trusted to own nuclear weapons, wealth, tanks and oil, why should they be trusted with their own nationhood.

They've picked a fight with us; time to start conquering again.

Patton was right.

[Centurion2000]

Interesting analysis, haven't seen this line taken anywhere.

Actually I've been taking this line since 9/11. A true definition of an empire is where one state (metropole) controls the internal and external policies of other states (peripheries).

We could have the Imperial Republic of America in short order and to a degree we do have it.

If these idiots (a good chuck of the Middle East) cant be trusted to own nuclear weapons, wealth, tanks and oil, why should they be trusted with their own nationhood.

They've picked a fight with us; time to start conquering again.

Patton was right.

[johnqueuepublic]

freefly If you support our current effort against the Taliban, then you are in effect supporting an aspect of empire. The founding fathers argued against foreign entanglements only because we were too weak to have our focus taken off the goal of establishing a new government. That was 200 years ago and we have matured. Without an American empire, 9/11s will continue to happen over and over again. It can be subtle, not at all on its face like the Rome of old, but we cant continue down the same old path and survive. What happens if the Saudi princes are overthrown and the oil shut off by Islamic nutcases? Under your theory we simply give up, dont we? Under a policy of empire we take over the oil fields and survive.

[fourdeuce82d]

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to dial up Usama & Omar's silos..."

Which silos are those?

[Austin Willard Wright]

World protector? Does this include:

Building up Bin Laden's group in the 1980s through U.S. tax money.

Paying 42 million in U.S. tax dollars earlier this year to the Taliban for drug eradication efforts.

Supporting Saddam against Iran.

Providing aid to the Islamic fanatics in Afghanistan *before* the Soviet troops intervened.

Supporting Noreiga, before be became "the next Hitler" that is.

Supporting Islamic extremists who happen to be Albanians in their quest to create a Greater Albania.

[Gerfang]

The author forgot to add:

“Let us bring order to the galaxy”

All kidding aside, if you examine history it becomes very clear that the first thing an empire does is enslave it’s own population for the benefit of a power elite. An American Empire is a phenomenally bad idea. In considering our founding fathers, the road to empire is the very best way to “depart from the ideals that they died for”.

[johnqueuepublic]

"Building up Bin Laden's group in the 1980s through U.S. tax money."
Easy one we supported the Mujahadeen (not necessarily Usama) to defeat the Soviets who invaded, thus precipitating the death of the evil empire.

"Supporting Saddam against Iran."
You cant see the brilliance of pitting two evil despots against each other?

"Providing aid to the Islamic fanatics in Afghanistan *before* the Soviet troops intervened."
BS Austin totally groundless charge

"Supporting Noreiga, before be became "the next Hitler" that is."
Isnt old Pineapple face in a US jail right now??

"Supporting Islamic extremists who happen to be Albanians in their quest to create a Greater Albania."
This is Clinton's legacy Austin - did you vote for him?

[johnqueuepublic]

Hey Gerfang

Hate to break the news to you but Star Wars was fictional, Darth was a guy wearing a plastic helmet.

Sheeesh!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder Clinton got re-elected