Majority of New Zealanders back military support for US: poll

yahoo ^ | October 1 | AFP

[super175]

bump

[Ditter]

Helen Clark disbanded NZ's military in May of this year I was there & heard it on the news. How are going to help? Cheer? Wish us well? Knit us sweaters?

[super175]

Provide wool sweaters for those cold Afghan nights...

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Opting to sell off our meagre air combat/strike force of 16 30+ year old Skyhawks which have never seen combat and are a drain on other, more useful parts of the armed forces (especially the army)is not disbanding the military. Our SAS are already on the ground in bandit country and all you do is offer insults...So much for friendship

[petuniasevan]

Easy, Kiwi. I'm sure that ditter just ran his mouth without checking the facts.
Tensions run high here in the States these days, as if you can't tell.

We appreciate any and all help the people of New Zealand will send us. Thank you.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Cheers.
After the free-for-all NZ bashing here a few weeks ago I am still a little raw.

[Norwell]

Helen is a disgrace. Your Air Force needed upgrading, not disbandment.

The fact that you have a few troops (are they with the SAS) trapsing around does not excuse you from broader responsibility under the ANZUS Treaty.

[Ditter]

Hey Blunder, I heard it from Helen herself. She didn't say ALL except the SAS,she said "we are disbanding our military". I was shocked any country would do that. I immediately thought, well she knows the USA will come riding to the rescue. Besides, I LIKE your sweaters. (and your mountians and your rivers and your venison and your cheese and your Pavlova) ;9)

[shaggy eel]

,,, thanx for the BUMP Super. Now Yanks and Kiwis, before another squabbling hot thread starts, be aware that the New Zealand Herald is Auckland based (our equivalent of the NY Times), that it's unclear which demographic it aimed for or avoided in this poll and that these results may be very much out of line on a national take.

I think the results would be even higher if regional newspapers ran similar polls and there was a composite result.

Ditter, thanx for your vital recognition of our wool products - the economy will boom because of that!

[shaggy eel]

BUMP

[super175]

Shaggy eel and I were talking about the Air Force thing a while back.

I think instead of having no one with air training at all, NZ should contract with the US to train pilots on US jets, or with the Aussies, or both.

That way NZ can have pilots and give the military folk an opportunity, but it would not require maintaining a whole fleet of jet fighters that are outdated already anyhow.

I am sure everyone would appreciate that, and it would be much less expensive than the old way.

[shaggy eel]

,,, under the previous (NATIONAL) government, the US offered us a lease to own deal on some F-16s. We should have taken that deal. We need to take a stand and budget upwards, not downwards for defense.

[super175]

I think a good political move for the conservatives there would be to get two birds with one stone.

Revive the ANZUS cooperation via having military cooperation with the US and Australia.

We can have the Kiwi branch of the US Air Force...

[shaggy eel]

,,, the US and Aussies have placed a large military runway near Katherine in Australia's Northern Territory. We have a large military runway called Ohakea, not far from Palmerston North. This facility is very much underutilsed now the Skyhawks are on the way out. In future reviews the real estate should be considered as well as the hardware. I'm sorry to say I've deleted a post from my home page, a couple of months back which addressed the ANZUS Treaty and the possibility of US Navy ships calling here. On that thread were some interesting and constructive points of view.

[Blunderfromdownunder]

Your selective reporting is interesting. Why not tell people this is exactly what Helen did, with the biggest increase in defence spending in a decade. ANZUS is a legacy of a time and situation that no longer applies and should be replaced with something new.

[shaggy eel]

,,, BLUNDERFROMDOWNUNDER somes you up to a tee. Let's have those figures on defense spending displayed please - I certainly haven't reported any, selective or otherwise. On this thread I've offered a few facts and some opinion.

Waiting...

[Hot Tabasco]

Why not tell people this is exactly what Helen did, with the biggest increase in defence spending in a decade

Interesting, why don't you add a little fuel to your argument by presenting us with the facts of your statement? From the little I know of NZ, your comrade Clark sold your airforce and for what purpose? To further fund your government giveaway programs and buy votes?

And just throwing out a hypothetical here, what kind of ties is she sowing with your Chinese neighbors by tactfully turning her back on the U.S.?

She's come a long way since her coffee picking days......

[Kiwigal]

The policy line Helen Clark gave when she disbanded the Skyhawks was that NZ had for too long been trying to be good at too much. Her theory was that we should focus on the things we're good at. She decided that we were good at having an Army, ok at having a Navy and not so flash at having an airforce (primarily, I think, because of the expense). Hence, she put additional funding into the Army, while taking away funding and resources from the other two armed forces, particularly the airforce (about which they are very sore).

In theory, this could be a good policy. NZ does have difficulty with its defence spending. Read as: we don't spend enough on defence. Now, if we want to carry on in that way then cultivating a highly-skilled ground force would be advantageous IF and only IF we did it after repairing our international defence relationship and formulating a plan with which our allies agreed about what particular areas of our defence forces we should focus on. That way, we would gain far greater respect. At the moment, all the world knows is that "we're selling all our Jet planes" (to the tune of "leaving on a jet plane) and consequently have squat to offer to the international war against terrorism.

Our SAS troops are the main part of what has been offered. Helen likes to focus on that - "But we HAVE offered support. We've offered our SAS troops". NZ's SAS has "70 to 100 troops" (NZ Herald, 2 October 2001). Wow, generous contribution there Helen.

Like I said, perhaps if liased with our Allies before shutting down the airforce - and a joint training program in Australia which used 2 of the Skyhawks - we wouldn't be treated with so much sarcasm by the rest of the world. But, it's just another nail in the tin-pot republic coffin the Labour government has so carefully been building for us over the last couple of years. SIGH.

[mgstarr]

Oh I doubt you'll get any facts from Blunderfromdownunder. Socialists offer interesting interpretations instead of facts.

Let's see, the navy is now below the government's own view of what what was bare minimum and there is no credible air force any longer. I'd be curious to know exactly what Blunder thinks Commissar Helen is spending his money on.