Posted on 09/24/2001 3:10:00 AM PDT by Ada Coddington
If FR is a "jail," you are its town drunk, Otis.
Regards dude. An email once in a while wouldn't kill you.
The last two weeks have been very trying for everyone not only here at FR but across the country (and in other parts of the world), of course.
My personal observation is that a good deal of the hostility which arises frequently has been due to the belief of many well-meaning conservatives, Republicans in particular, that virtually all of our ills can be laid at the foot of Clinton's two terms. Though FR certainly carries its share of debate on prior events -- most particularly the War Between the States -- there is a genuinely myopic view which is bolstered by the popularity of several other sites that capitalized on strong anti-Clinton sentiment for the last five years or so.
Having met more than a few drug warriors here, I'm quite aware that the traditional wisdom completely fails to acknowledge the part the US and certain allies have played over the last 50+ years in the problems that plague us today. And this includes what we are now calling fanatical fundamental Islamic terrorism.
I have seen some of the most admirable people, JimRob included, who are willing to cut off all sense of history in order to preserve the ideal that we have been unjustly attacked. Of course civilian casualties are a horror. But civilians by the millions have suffered during the last 5 decades and more outside of our shores and all too often because of our policies. Not the least, the manner in which Bolshevik revolution was received and supported up to sometime after WWII -- when a Cold War became the preferable dogma.
To enumerate those who've suffered -- from Asia to the Mid East to the Balkans to South/Central America and more -- would never suffice for the die-hard denier. To reiterate the drug and human trafficking which flourished in tandem with our "allies"; the covert funding, training, supplying of weapons which killed others before being turned on us; to recount the human torture carried out by our "partners"; not to mention the human experiments and psychological operations conducted here within our own boundaries ... well, I perfectly well understand why so few of us want to retrospect and would prefer to genuflect to the flag and the holy offices it apparently represents.
Problem is, that's not only blasphemous but a might big assumption by this time. Yeah, I can see why long ago America appeared to be favored by God. Not sure that's the case anymore. The "shining city on a hill" is a nice appeal but the reality is that there has been a lot of dirty work as well. There is a heck of a lot of unrighteousness here with US, and it has spread tentacles throughout the world.
In simplistic terms, the 9-11 attacks have been characterized as a no-brainer: these guys hate us pure and simple because we're good, we're better, we're world-winners and they're nothing but trashy losers seduced by a religious view that ought to be stamped out. Well, it seems to me that there's a lot to question about that equation, and I'm certainly not pro-Islamic per se. Neither am I in favor of apocalypse (holy war-crusade) that threatens much of the earth's population today in order to magically produce some world order that has its roots in neo-mystical beliefs not all that dissimilar to Hitler's Third Reich. First of all, by this time, I'm not entirely sure the US is favored in this game -- and I do mean, GAME.
Do you understand how many terrorists have been created by the US and Britain (even Paris); harbored by them; funded by them; touted by them; protected by them. What about terrorists and murderers who have fled to Israel, which won't extradite them? Or the Jewish terrorists here in the US that somehow got off on technicalities. (And no, they aren't the *only* ones, but the point is that anti-terrorism has never been a serious goal -- just as the drug war has never been serious or most other "policy" that makes problems bigger than they were). So obviously the pap from D.C. is out of one side of the mouth ... again.
Are we on the verge of the Fourth Reich? Only time will tell. But in the meantime, let's please not Rush to judgment when we don't have all the facts.
Whoever planned and carried out the 9-11 undoubtedly deserves punishment. However, they are still puppets to global agendas. It's amazing how that gets lost in the anger on all sides. If you (generically speaking) aren't interested and willing to discover how we became the Great Satan, then there is a scripture to recall: woe to you. Hubris is always unbecoming, no matter what god it appeals to.
I do agree that loose lips sink ships and have no idea why anyone would post strategic information.
I had always thought of you as a fair man who stood back at a distance to analyze a situation and then come up with a thoughtful and reasoned response. For some reason there are many here who can not separate the Idea of Anti-war from the Idea of being Anti-Socialist. How does this help us win this war against these terrorists ? Sure we can throw away everything FR ever was in the war effort, but what does that do for the country ? In this day and age there is one thing for certain. Once you lose a freedom, or a right...You will not get it back. Not ever! The socialists are licking their lips at what they are going to get accomplished in the name of Protecting us from these terrorists. Few if any of those administrative attacks against our freedoms will make the slightest bit of difference to our safety. They will simply reduce our ability to defend ourselves from those who have no respect for a single word of our founding documents. They will kill the very opposition that FR used to represent.
Being an American military person is a great Honor. Not only do they defend their country, but they defend the greatest and best country to ever exist. They defend our Bill of Rights and our Constitution. With out those documents we never would have been anything special in the world. And without those who fought and gave their life for those documents then we would not even exist. The documents and the defenders go hand in hand. One without the other has little meaning. Surely both can exist together. Surely we should defend not only from invasion of foreign army's, but also from those that would invade the documents that make us great. I do not believe that the fight against socialism detracts from the activity's of our troops. I do not believe that anyone who is fighting socialism for the good of their country would not support our troops with even more of their hearts. I do not think that we have in our hearts what those in the 60's had in their hearts. They were the socialists that we now fight. May God not only protect our borders, but also the documents that made us great.
I ask once again for your documentation, please? This is quite the allegation and I'm sure you wouldn't mind sharing your source.
What isn't justified is trashing the Constitution.
L
You people never cease to amaze me. Twist the subject to what ever you can get away from the point. I have not read one person here post that they support the posting of troop movements that have not been made totally public. Not even the author of the article at the top is saying that. I know what he means. He means that the power to "Perceive" a post is the posting of troop information does not even belong any longer to JR. And I have a seen a good many posts here pulled that many people would not "Perceive" to be the posting of troop information. So please get over this Idea that freepers who have been posting here for far longer than you are traitors who pointing laser lights on our troops and shouting to the enemy-"Over Here". The very thought that you could even suggest it just makes me sick!!!!!!!!!
It doesn't matter what people perceive right now, it's just possible others actually know what needs to be pulled to protect the lives of those brave Americans and British who aren't just talking about freedoms but really fighting for them.
Is Elkins referring to himself here? Unless he's one of the ones going to put their life on the line, to risk extreme danger and possibly to die for our freedoms and for this country, he has no room at all to call anyone else a "keyboard warrior". It's all he himself is. Some people type all day about freedom but some people die for them.
I keep going back and reading what I wrote. And then what you wrote. I just can't figure out where I said that war was not justified ? I surely don't feel that way. Of course I think we have to stop them. So why are you suggesting that I don't care about those who died or those that may die. I just don't get it...I really don't.
Yet I am confounded by the infernal works going on for so long, not only unnoticed but sometimes even applauded by some of the most honest folks around. How does this square with the real work being done in your name, here and abroad?
Speak for yourself, Jim. But I have become ashamed by what is done. Not only in government but also the "private sector" -- that which is usually a siamese twin to government and banking interests. It is a miracle that FR even exists. Frankly, I don't expect such miracles in the future.
Have you really thought about and weighed the costs in relation to where US is today? Does God approve of what has been done in your name and mine?
I empahsize again: this is a GAME and the world is at stake, IMO. When once we had favor, there is no guarantee anymore. Things change. And even if we (US) gain another temprary advantage through the arm of flesh, that is just another weight against US in the long run. I wish it were not so.
I am getting sick of hearing this broken record.What you people do not seem to understand, is that in war time you have to have a different mindset if you want to be victorious.
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