The Surrender Option - The cry of the Paleo.

National Review Online ^ | 09/12/2001 | John Derbyshire

[Tuor]

Good to see you again, arcane. I, for one have missed your input here lately. 'Course, I've missed the input of a number of our friends here lately. Unfortunately, the interventionists seem to have taken a strong foothold.

The neo-cons have always had a strong foothold here. I can understand their position, but I've never held it. To say we should mind our own business does not mean we should ignore threats. When the Barbary Pirates caused us problems, we attacked and destroyed them, as we should have. When the British impressed our sailors, we went to war with them, as we should have.

But I will say this: men do not commit suicide for a cause against people who have done nothing to offend them. If we were non-interventionalist, we might still inadvertantly offend some people, but the chances of having a group of people or a government engage in a suicide attack are virtually nill, IMO.

At any rate, the attack *did* occur. If I am given sufficient proof by as to who perpetrated this attack, I will be 100% behind any effort to bring justice to those responsible. But whatever happens, we must not attack blindly: we must be very sure and be able to prove to ourselves and the world that the nation we attack is indeed guilty of this act against us.

Tuor

[Tuor]

Stop the world, I want to get off.The world you guys live in only happens in a textbook, but why let reality get in the way of your fantasies.

I'm sure a lot of people around the world have thought that very thing about the US over the years. But in the US, we *could* live our fantasies -- as long as we worked for it.

Tuor

[Inyokern]

But I will say this: men do not commit suicide for a cause against people who have done nothing to offend them.

So, when the Japanese began throwing kamikazis at us, we should have just said, "Oh, what the hell. Let them have the Pacific."

I don't see why the US should change its foreign policy because some maniac in Afganistan is offended by it.

[Tuor]

Oh? Did I say that? Did I imply it? Your analogy fails as the kamikazees were committing suicide to protect their country against America. *That* was their motivation. Note that Japan didn't *start* their war with suicide bombers -- they ended the war using them.

You seemed to ignore the part of my post where I said we should find out who did this and bring them to justice by whatever means necessary. Maybe I just didn't make that clear enough. Hopefully I have now.

Tuor

[CWOJackson]

"How many times has the dov't used or rather created a crises to get us in an escalating war that can have no satisfactory ending? How about, every war I can think of??"

You're obviously not thinking very hard...perfect for this thread.

[CWOJackson]

Some people have to offer their rationale for this cowardly attack. By offering excuses for terrorism against us, they attempt to justify their own lengthy hatred and prejudices for this country. This nation is not the complection they demand, our government is not that which they desire. To make excuses for terrorist they can then justify their own arguments.

Please note however, they will make these comments from the safety of their keyboards and not on a lower Manhanttan street corner. What a shame.

[MadIvan]

There is an inherent tension between the type of system that America represents and the type of system that the Islamic terrorists want. If only because of America's cultural influence, there is bound to be conflict on some level, and likely one involving actual warfare.

What keeps the enemy at bay is an image of strength and a willingness to project that strength. Few bastards tried it on with Reagan or Thatcher because they knew the punishment would be swift and severe.

Finally, to say the USA has global interests is not to say that America is less of a Republic or becoming an Empire. It is a reality. America exports to the world (as much as the Patsies hate it) and imports much of its energy supplies. Neither America nor Britain have any interest in letting the 3rd World spiral out of control because when it does occur, that problem has a bad habit of arriving on our doorstep in the form of refugees.

The Paleos are much like the Socialists in naively wishing for the world to be something other than what it is. It is only dangerous if this naivety becomes policy.

Regards, Ivan

[meta]

Sorry, but I don't see how your examples contradict his rule.

[William Terrell]

Great wealth and great success generate great envy and great hatred.

Some very few, I imagine, but a great many when combined with arrogance, as the Jewish people have yet to learn.

I wonder if he has heard this argument? Governments, the administrators thereof who are the one that persue hegemony, are temporary creatures, much like a squash plant which sprouts rapidly, matures rapidly and decomposes rapidly. The more people caught in the hegemonism when the "empire" collapses the worse the world situation is.

[A2J]

"If Buchanan were president our foreign policy would not be run by a bunch of Zionist neo-cons and the Arab world would have no reason to resent us."

Foolishness!

You would allow the hatred that one group of people has for another to determine our relationship with the one that is hated? That's so juvenile of you!

Americans would be hated by Arabs merely because Christianity stands in direct contrast to Islam and compels us to side with Israel.

[Zviadist]

Mr. President, these are not traffic violations; these are acts of war. Justice must go by the board for a while, as it did when we firebombed German and Japanese cities, incinerating helpless babies and old folk who wished us no harm. Where was the justice in that?

This scumbag is urging the president to incinerate innocents: "justice must go by the board for a while." This bastard is NO better than the terrorists themselves. That National Review published this hateful piece says much about them all: they are a hell of a lot closer to the terrorists who bombed us than they are to average America. To hell with these pigs!

We are America, we believe in justice and the rule of law. Should we let terrorists goad us into acting like terrorists ourselves? Wouldn't that be their most evil victory over us?

[Zviadist]

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