Posted on 06/02/2024 9:17:43 AM PDT by Eleutheria5
“The only thing keeping Turkey on its leash is a strong Russia.”
Nonsense. Russia is not holding back Turkey one bit. Erdogan is doing whatever in hell he wants, he even helped arm Ukraine.
But its keeping Turkey from moving into those former Soviet Central Asian republics. And they will eventually move into Europe, with the help of all the Muslims living there.
“But its keeping Turkey from moving into those former Soviet Central Asian republics. “
The Central Asian republics will never agree to being part of any new “Turkish” Ottoman Empire, nor a Russian empire again. They are quit of having others be over them. They do not even make “Muslim” plans with each other, and they want nothing to do with fundamentalists as in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Their Islam is not fundamentalist and more syncretic with other beliefs in their cultures. That point includes the Uigur in China as well.
Your views are very old school, not up to date.
Not saying it will work like the old Ottoman Empire, but it will be more of a coalition.
“Not saying it will work like the old Ottoman Empire, but it will be more of a coalition.”
1. Won’t happen. Culture is stronger than religion or politics and the cultures of the Central Asian republics is not that of Turkey and even more so not that of Erdogan.
2. They have no need or desire to be part of a “coalition” that would intentionally pit them against Russia, China, Iran, India or anyone else. They - their people - have seen too many wars brought into their lands by others, and they won’t become part of that mistake again. If anything develops it will be their own coaltion in a manner telling all major powers to not try to pit them against anyone outisde their area. Erodogan would fail trying to recruit them into “his wing”.
Definitely true Edrogan wants to try and find a way to nail together a pseudo-Ottoman Empire. Additionally re-connect in some fashion with their ancestral brethren in Central Asia, e.g. Turkmenistan.
Putin’s imperial ambitions are in the way more by accident of history and geography then present-day intention. Russia with a 25% Muslim population is something Putin (and I guess also his successors!) can’t ignore but think they can manage. This bit of foolishness gives China a pot it can stir to further its North & North Central Asia ambitions. I doubt if Third Rome Imperial Orthodox mystic dreams can be spread thin enough to make it work. Then there’s pissing off the West vis-a-vis Ukraine to make it even harder to do.
Recep, “the mosques are our barracks,...the faithful our soldiers” Erdogan is EVIL.
Fascinating to read. You see, there were indeed pan-Turkic aspirations among some Turkish intellectuals for a certain period.
Strangely, the idea of pan-Turkism had been invented in Hungary, from where it went to Turkey, based on certain grammatical similarities between the Turkic languages and the Finno- Ugric ones.
The idea of pan-Turkism did indeed influence some of the Young Turks, if I remember correctly.
Still, I suppose that the great days of pan-Turkic ideas are gone now. Alparslan Türkes, the last notable Turkish politician who supported those ideas for a while, has been dead now for 27 years…
Islamism is what is the „latest fashion“ nowadays.
Who’s being “old school” here?
Muslims are looking for a leader who can unite them. Iran can’t do it. Arabs can’t do it. But Turkey can. They won’t care what happened hundreds of years ago, they just see the opportunity to dominate the world. Eventually Shias and Shiites will get together.
I knew Alparslan Türkes was a “Turkish nationalist”, and founder of the Nationalist Movement Party as well as leader of the notoriuos Grey Wolves. I did not know of him as a “pan Turkic” proponent.
In his younger years, he followed the tenets of pan-Turkism, iirc.
Im not sure whether he didn’t turn away from this idea later in life.
“Muslims are looking for a leader who can unite them.”
Nationalism in Muslim dominant countries, like Egypt, Pakistan, and many others is far stronger than Islamists seeking a “supreme” leader of all Muslims. Theocracies like the Mullahs of Tehran, and the Al Queda types may hold such a view but it is not a universal view among all Muslims. Why? Their peoples in all Muslim nations know the history of that idea brought them centuries of wars between competitors for that title. Even now the Mullahs of Tehran are known among Muslims as reviving such wars. And while most of those wars between Muslims was spread across the Middle East the largest national Muslim population is in Indoneesia which has a secretic Islamic practice with some flavoring from older religious traditions there.
I think Islam could finally be at the beginning of an inflection point, like Christianity went through (after centuries of religious wars in Europe), where folks get tired of bleeding and bleeding away their children in religious wars. It may not be there yet, and it took Christianity a long time too, but it could happen.
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