‘Upgraded’ T-72B3 destroyed the M1 Abrams with its first shot

Bulgarianmilitary.com ^ | 3/6/24 | Boyco Nikolov

[Pontiac]

My guess would be shoulder fired Anti-tank missiles but I would need more info for an intelligent reply.

[blitz128]

Key point, the west would never send in tanks and infantry before gaining air superiority at least locally. You can’t have “combined arms” when you are missing one of your arms

Much has been said of the “failed” Ukraine counter offensive, but you can’t clear minefields when your engineering vehicles are being destroyed by aircraft helicopters and artillery.

In desert storm we spent months removing Iraqi threats and then the ground attack was made to look relatively easy.
The much vaunted stand by marines against large Russian force was made possible by massive air response.

Russian air, artillery and ground forces would be decimated by equal response which the Ukrainians yet have the capability to enforce.

Cluster artillery and atacms were provided after the offensive was essentially expended. Cluster munitions from aircraft make artillery versions look small, Russian Air Force having to worry about air launched weapons very well may have a significant effect on their activities as well as survival

Once again it comes down to giving the Ukrainians the weapons to win, not just degrade Russian forces

[ferret_airlift]

The T72 has a 125mm gun. With appropriate round, I have no doubt that it could penetrate an M1 from the sides or rear. Especially an M1 that had all it’s best goodies stripped out. I have somewhat more doubt that it could penetrate the frontal armor, even without the ERA and other goodies.

[Yo-Yo]

My fear from the beginning was that our Abrams, having been stripped of their most modern, most protected technology would be more vulnerable on the Uke battlefield.

It's not a fear, it's a fact. The classified armor was removed from the tanks sent to Ukraine (as it is for all export models of the M1) and replaced with standard steel armor.

However, even the depleted uranium Chobham armor on U.S. tanks isn't invincible against a modern tank armor penetrating discarding sabot rounds that both we and the Russians use.

[blitz128]

Always depends on type of munition and where it hits, there is a video of a Bradly taking two hits and armor worked.
With that said Russian tank armor and design seems pretty susceptible and I find it curious when people crow about an abrams or a Bradly is taken out or a dozen vehicles are lost in an early Ukrainian offensive( a daily occurrence for the Russians), yet daily loses of t-90s are happening, and most likely prewar numbers of these tanks are gone and nary a word, plus where is T-14s

I would imagine that if the Russians are ever able to export weapons again they might find few takers

[LouAvul]

Funny you should mention that. I was an engineering student in the late 70s. Our Univac computer (fortran) cost the school ~$1 million. While I was at Murray State (Ky), Radio Shack introduced their TRS 80 for ~$300. It outperformed our computer.

[logi_cal869]

Your concern is so badly misplaced, it’s pathetic.

[HartleyMBaldwin]

Land, sea, or air combat, I’m sure there were veterans of any one of those who would have been horrified at the thought of the other two. (But they wouldn’t have refused.)

[rexthecat]

A tank can take a town, but a tank can’t hold a town. Throw drones into the mix, and tanks are obsolete. Aircraft carriers are next.

[hardspunned]

My thoughts exactly!

[hardspunned]

Tell that to the dead Ukes forced to take these scaled back versions to the battlefield. I know you think it’s “pathetic” that I have such concern for those poor Uke boys. They are obviously just cannon fodder in your eyes. I’m not sorry about being pathetically soft hearted about the Uke boys the DC warmongers are getting slaughtered every day they force this calamity to continue.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

I remember an old movie BABY BLUE MARINE(1976) in which a soldier is in a bar getting drunk because he has been assigned to a Tank Corps. He was depressed because tanks were the first thing destroyed on a battlefield.

[hardspunned]

That was before drones! It’s a whole new, more deadly ballgame for tanks now. A $9 million tank is defenseless against a $1000 drone.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

The intelligent thing to do is to bring the Ukrainian crews to the US and send them through the tanker training in the US at Fort Knox Kentucky.

The US has no business getting involved in any war in Europe, especially in the Ukraine. If the Europeans want to help, that's on them.

[Scrambler Bob]

Heck, I wouldn’t want to get into a tank either, and I was a sailor.
= = =

Would you get into a sub?

[PGR88]

I used to know a guy who was a Ranger, decorated combat veteran, all that stuff, who used to say they’d never get him into a tank.

I knew an officer in a Stryker Brigade, who said he'd never want to go to war in them. He said he would feel safer in a Bradley, which apparently is more protected.

[GreyFriar]

There has not been “tanker training” at Ft. Knox since 2011, when the Armor School was moved to Ft. Benning as a “cost cutting” measure. There are still some tank ranges there, but they are used for Army National Guard tank gunnery training on weekend and during the summer. The Armor School was replaced by the Army’s Human Resources Command, which processes all of the Army’s personnel actions.

[rlmorel]

I would, but...my reluctance might only come to the fore as we plunge towards crush depth, thinking “Why did I ever agree to this????”

Sigh. I get the impression that, when things get approach fatal, if people have time to think about it, they come to understand that every choice they made in life brought them to that point they are at in that moment, even if they don’t think about it much in advance.

“Shoulda been an infantryman/pilot/draft dodger...”

[The Sons of Liberty]

I have no idea if this is how the Abrams was destroyed. ...

Gen Milley-Vanilli and the other Woke Generals have planned and provided the equipment and training, and this is the result:

"Armies prepare to fight their last war, rather than their next war"

[HamiltonJay]

This war is without question the most avoidable conflict in my lifetime....

A clown leader in Ukraine, absolutely ignorant of the GeoPolitical realities of his country, fed sweet nothings by western leaders...

Ukraine never had any shot at winning a direct conflict with Russia... and NATO was never going to commit direct involvement... so, end game is Russia will simply wear them down, turn their cities into rubble, and eventually some sort of peace will be declared, Russia won’t give up any meaningful territory it has taken, and Ukraine will be a smoking crater with an entire generation of young men dead for an outcome that could been dealt with at a bargaining table from very early on.

No, this isn’t in any way condoning or advocating Russia’s actions, its just the very cold hard reality of this situation, and that has been the reality since day one.

I have openly vomited watching the western world, lie to everyone, and hold up Z as some sort of freedom fighter and noble man... He’s a horrible human being, he has ensure generational suffering and death on his people, and the West propping him up and trying to put lipstick on him to pretty up this pig is disgusting.

Western Civilization has completely lost it’s way.