Posted on 08/07/2022 6:04:13 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
The audience in the theater I was in broke into applause and cheering, Seemed like it was very well received!
“I will tell you what happens, the cop will kill you.”
If I threaten someone with a bottle and they are packing, depending on how close I am will depend if the opponent can get to the gun, since it was inside his coat, before I can strike him. And you have to remember that Lo was a well trained fighting machine and if left alone, could have choked him out or separated a shoulder or break a leg with little problem and he decided to turn him loose. So it doesn’t appear he felt threatened as if he did he would have handled the situation more dramatically.
Also, it never said there was a death threat attempted as that was not mentioned in any of the articles I read. What was said is that the perp took a bottle off Lo’s table. It does not say he threatened to or tried to strike Lo with it. He could have called Lo anything he could pronounce but that doesn’t make it a death threat. This is in Brazil, not the US. These things are handled a little different there.
wy69
“”The police report into the death states that a witness saw policeman Henrique Otavio Oliviera Velozo grab a bottle from Lo’s table at the concert at the Clube Sirio and made threatening gestures with it just before his death””
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/mma/article-11090551/Leandro-Lo-death-Jiu-jitsu-legend.html
One more thing, at clubs and bars there are lots of drunks, shootings, fights, and others looking for trouble. This is Brazil...The suspect could have had girl friend, wife or other friends with him and felt embarrassed and disrespected after he threaded the victim with a bottle and then being taken down to the floor by the victim. Letting the suspect up who had just threatened him with a weapon was obviously not a good move. Keeping the suspect down until the cops arrived, the victim might be alive today.
“...after he threaded the victim with a bottle and then being taken down to the floor by the victim.”
There, again, is nothing mentioned in the different articles I read that said he threatened Lo with a bottle. The only thing it said was that the perp grabbed a bottle off the table Lo was seated at and Lo immediately took him down. The gun didn’t appear until the grappling was over and they were separated and back on their feet. The only that is actually proven is that the perp pulled out the gun and shot Lo long after the words were passed. Unless we are not being told something from all the articles we have looked at, me, about half a dozen, there never was a threat...just the act of pulling and firing the gun after Lo released him. I think this is why there never was a suspected charge of less than murder two which is why they charged Veloso what they did.
This is an article from the NY Post from the arrest report:
“The killing allegedly took place during a confrontation between Lo and Police Officer Henrique Otávio Oliveira Velozo, the outlet reported.
Witnesses said Velozo grabbed a bottle from Lo’s table and that the fighter took the cop down and held him, according to the outlet, citing a police report.”
https://nypost.com/2022/08/07/jiu-jitsu-legend-leandro-lo-shot-dead-in-brazil-reports/
No threatening action concerning the bottle.
wy69
I get it, but the article I sent you a link to is more current and seems to have more detail, see the link I provided you.
Btw, why would someone get violent and take a patron down to the floor, just because the patron picked up a bottle from the table? Why would the link I sent you, report the suspect threated the victim with a bottle in his hand. Are they lying?
If someone simply walked by your table and picked up a bottle and started to walk away, would you throw that patron to the floor and jump on him?
It all comes back to what you know, not what other people tell you they might have seen.
“The suspect, identified as Henrique Otávio Oliveira Velozo by local media, was seen by witnesses trying to snatch a bottle off of Lo’s table. When Lo confronted him, Velozo allegedly pulled out the gun and fired at him.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/brazilian-jiu-jitsu-star-leandro-lo-shot-dead-at-sao-paulo-nightclub
In that one there was no physical altercation at all.
“Witnesses said, citing police reports, that Velozo grabbed a bottle from Law’s table and the fighters knocked down a police officer and detained him.
After the two were separated, Velozo allegedly pulled out a gun and shot Lo in the forehead, according to the site.”
https://theworldnews.net/us-news/jiu-jitsu-legend-leandro-lo-shot-dead-in-brazil-reports
This one has, again, no threatening to it. It just has action originated by Lo right after Velozo grabbed a bottle off Lo’s table.
I was an instructor for the US army and I know what the limitations are of the technique. A gun in many instances can be neutralized and that has been demonstrated by a number of arts. But if Lo was being held or was far enough away, it could have happened as it is being reported by a number of different news outlets and how it is worded.
Some say threaten, some say direct action. But the consistent point each of the articles I read was that the gun was not produced until well after the start of the scenario, and in some, after Lo let him up. Thus why would a multi time world champion fighter let him get up so he could pull it if there was a threat to Lo or his party? Lo could easily have choked him out or broken things to make his ability to harm anyone non-existent. And that’s why I question the news entries trying to sell their product by sensationalizing the reporting of it.
If someone simply walked by your table and picked up a bottle and started to walk away, would you throw that patron to the floor and jump on him?
If the bottle had product in it that you paid for, and where the location of the club was and the people in it, possibly. He stole. If a person steals from you, and you have the ability to stop the theft without permanently harming someone, would you act? Many would. Depends on who, what, where, the possible alcohol level of the people, the laws of the country, the attitude of both opponents...that’s a tough to answer question. But I wasn’t there.
Wy69
If someone simply walked by your table and picked up a bottle and started to walk away, would you throw that patron to the floor and jump on him?
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