Trump: War President or Anti-Interventionist?

Townhall.com ^ | June 25, 2019 | Pat Buchanan

[Leaning Right]

> It is Pat Buchanan who knows nothing about anything. <

Buchanan is an America-first kind of guy. And I kind of like that.

Buchanan would have kept us out of WWI. And that would have made the world a better place. But he also would have kept us out of WWII. And that would have made the world a much, much worse place.

[nathanbedford]

You have ably presented a side of the argument but only one side.

(Alas in this forum it has become necessary to attest to one's faithfulness to the cause lest he finds himself rather than his reasoning assailed so, for the record, I have long maintained here that Iraq was the wrong war partly because it made a war against Iran impossible. Iran has always been the real threat, the possibility of Iran obtaining atomic weapon would be devastating for America's national interests and for the world because it would invert the balance of power in the Persian Gulf, because it would cause the Arab nations to disintegrate even more, further cause them to go nuclear themselves, Spike the price of oil, tie America's hands militarily, much as they are tied against North Korea, and certainly raise the risk of atomic devastation.)

Buchanan argues another side which is plausible and on first examination, factually accurate:

Iran has no nuclear weapons, has never had nuclear weapons, and has never even produced bomb-grade uranium. According to our own intelligence agencies in 2007 and 2011, Tehran did not even have a nuclear weapons program. Under the 2015 nuclear deal, the JCPOA, the only way Iran could have a nuclear weapons program would be in secret, outside its known nuclear facilities, all of which are under constant U.N. inspection.

Where is the evidence that any such secret program exists? As for the U.S. charge that Iran is "destabilizing" the Middle East, it was not Iran that invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, overthrew the Gadhafi regime in Libya, armed rebels to overthrow Assad in Syria, or aided and abetted the Saudis' intervention in Yemen's civil war.

Trump pulled out of and trashed Obama's nuclear deal. He imposed the sanctions that are now inflicting something close to unacceptable if not intolerable pain on Iran. He had the Islamic Revolutionary Guard declared a terrorist organization. He sent the Abraham Lincoln carrier task force and B-52s to the Gulf region.

Many of these points will be raised against the administration the minute the shooting starts. We have seen this dynamic played out before in Vietnam and in Iraq. The president is not just commander-in-chief he is in many ways the personification of the nation and, in war, he is the personification of the war effort. The Kaiser and the Czar fell when their armies with whom these leaders had been identified disintegrated.

You complain that "Buchanan never served five minutes in uniform - so any military assessments he makes are suspect." Yet one might say the exact same about Donald Trump's biography-unless you count military high school as time in uniform. Donald Trump did not enter the Oval Office like a five-star general who just defeated the Nazis.

My point is that the president as Chief Executive Officer, commander-in-chief, personification of the nation and ultimately responsible for the success or failures of war, must carry the country with him and keep the country, and Congress, with him. Those presidents who fail, fall. Witness Lyndon Johnson.

The groundwork for military operations has simply not been laid and the country is not behind this or any president waging war on this record. Churchill roused Britain to its finest hour and carried the nation through the darkest days of the war because his warnings had been so terrible and so vindicated that "none could now gainsay me." Roosevelt presented an image of isolationism promising no boys would go to war all the while turning the screws on Japan , much like Trump is now doing to Iran, until he got a Pearl Harbor which thoroughly unified the nation and carried us through the first dark months of World War II. But George W. Bush, despite diligent cultivation of support for the war, went into the Iraq war with a disunited nation and, predictably, suffered irreparable damage when the occupation went bad.

This President has a genius for feeling the pulse of the nation and whether wittingly or otherwise, he made precisely the right political move at this state of affairs.

Trump set forth his policy clearly and he deserves credit for it. Buchanan himself acknowledges it:

"No Nuclear Weapons and No Further Sponsoring of Terror!"

This is the principle that the president must take to the people while he continues to do what he is doing, tighten the screws with sanctions, launch cyber attacks, and await developments whether it be capitulation or Pearl Harbor. Above all, the people must understand this to be in the fundamental existential interest of the United States and something of a moral crusade.

He must be as sly as Franklin Roosevelt.

[Little Ray]

Trump is probably one of the smartest presidents we have ever had, and definitely the hardest working.

[Stingray51]

Why are you swearing on FR?

[x]

The only logical conclusion is that the Iranian government has been on a direct path to build a nuclear device for 40 years.

A no less logical conclusion is that there were efforts to get the bomb, but no direct or unbroken 40 year path.

If you claim there's more logical certainty to your argument than it deserves, you weaken your argument.

[nuconvert]

Pat, after all these years you still don’t understand the Iranian regime. Stick to subjects you do.

[frnewsjunkie]

The way to have an attack on Pearl Harbor is to ignore all the signs and go to sleep. The way to have the world think of the United States as weak and maybe attackable, is to be spineless, drop millions/billions on the ground for countries that hate us and be dependent on those same countries for our oil.

The way to stand tall and avoid a war (if it’s possible, the is is the ONLY way) is to maybe play chicken with some of the worst and dangerous countries in the world. And be sure they know our military is TOP and we don’t need their oil any more... they have nothing to wage a stand off with... NEGOTIATE and maybe you will save your position in your infested dictatorship over there.

[nuconvert]

” Killing 150 civilians in response sounds murderous by any measure”

They would have targeted military/IRGC installations. That’s who would have been killed, not civilians.

[TakebackGOP]

Trump was never as anti-interventionist as Ron Paul or Pat Buchanan.

[pgkdan]

According to our own intelligence agencies in 2007 and 2011, Tehran did not even have a nuclear weapons program.

And that's one of the main reasons I believe that Iran DOES have a nuclear weapons program.

[MrRelevant]

Silly man. When you begin any negotiation you start high. Then observe the reaction and wait for a counter. So Trump knows that his “demands” are only a jumping off point. The sanctions can be lifted at any time. Its up to the Iranians at this point. If the IRANIANS choose death and a trip further back into stone age, its on them. Not Trump. Sure they come out talking a tough game but a war with the US would certainly wreck Iran, the Iranians know this.

I am sure all those young men who died via Iranian IEDs in Iraq were grateful for the Iranian help in crushing ISIS there....before a bomb tore their humvee to shreds.

[Freeport]

“... all of which are under constant U.N. inspection.”

Wrong! Only those facilities that Iran has OPENED to inspection are known. Undeclared or secret sites are NOT inspected.

[Freeport]

I agree. Now it that had been a U-2...

[Oklahoma]

To understand Pat Buchanan you must first realize he has a real problem with Israel and Jews and he never misses a chance to suck up to Moslems. This whole screed was covering up for Iran.

[karnage]

That’s a bingo.

[dfwgator]

We just say Bingo.

[karnage]

Yes... I was quoting “Inglourious Basterds.”

[dfwgator]

One of those movies I never get tired of watching.

[karnage]

I was sad when Diane Kruger got whacked.

Also really enjoyed Fassbender’s character and performance.

[dfwgator]

Bon-Jorn-No!