Posted on 11/29/2017 11:37:37 AM PST by SkyPilot
Politicians who keep repeating the lie that this corporate cronyism legislation doubles the standard deduction should be voted out of office.
When a $10 deduction is merged with a $5 deduction, with the merged deduction being set at $20, taxpayers are getting a $5 greater deduction overall, not a $10 greater deduction overall.
“can someone name me a way, a single solitary way that taxes can ever ever ever be cut without a cry of “for the rich” being spouted?”
Easily:
- cut the rates for everyone making below the mean or average.
-Allow teachers to deduct the school supplies they purchase
-allow people who actually WORK physically for a living to deduct ALL clothing and tool expenses; if your don’t get dirty, and face physical risk, and heat and cold it ain’t work.
-Allow all medical expenses UP TO, say 20K to be deducted...
“There is no subsidy.”
A deduction that has the same net result as a subsidy is therefore indistinguishable from a subsidy.
As I pointed out to you, the mortgage interest rate deduction subsidizes the real estate and banking industry and the basis of local property tax indices. Remove that deduction/subsidy and home prices, loan origination fees, service fees, mortgage balances, and property taxes will all decline.
Remove the SALT deduction/subsidy and either your state will lower taxes or else they’ll watch as people and industry flee to other states.
Will my family lose something because the SALT is gone? Sure we will.
But I suspect that you’ll lose even more.
A subsidy is a payment.
Like the subsidy for child bearing otherwise known as the EITC.
None of what you describe is a payment by anyone, to anyone or entity.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subsidy
“Ryan is most likely just going to bring the Senate version to the floor, and the cowards in the House will pass it. Voila! “
I am not convinced the Senate bill will pass the House.
Remember, there were over a dozen House members placated with a $10,000 Property tax deduction.
In addition the CA GOP delegation will now have to vote for real...the total elimination of all SALT deductions. Many have already expressed discomfort with that. They KNOW if they place that vote they will be unelected by 2020 at the latest.
The bill does not kick in until 2018, and people won’t see the result in their tax bill until Feb, 2019 at the earliest.
Believe me. I have supported trump since the day he came down the escalator and talked about the illegal aliens. This tax bill is a gop establishment scam which gives a big tax break to corporate gop donors favored by the globalists ryan, mcconnell, et al all at the expense of two earner families. The so called middle class tax cuts go away at the end of five years— the corporate donor tax cuts are permanent. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure out who gets screwed on this one. Its the upper middle class trump voters. Plain and simple.
Quote: “The former is already approved and the latter cleared committee and will be voted on possibly tomorrow.”
Just like the ObamaCare repeal was voted on? I say again, McCain to the rescue. He cannot resist a good old fashion in your face job in order to satisfy his NYT, liberal media praise addiction. Color me skeptical but I believe by this time tomorrow we will be discussing how McCain stuck a knife in our backs again.
What seems to be bothering people (and I live in NJ) is the elimination of the tax deduction for state and local taxes. I am sorry but this will hurt me and I am FOR IT!!! Here is why, by allowing the steeple of the blue states to deduct their obscene taxes the Federal Government has been providing political cover for the worst of the worst liberal policies.
This is your typical, liberal NJ resident: “ I am a NJ resident and I am going to listen to my powerful emotions tell me that unless I vote for a democrat puppies will die, the elderly will die, blacks and hispanics will die, teachers will die, big business will continue to poison our air and use slave labor, etc. etc. etc. We need pot legalized and illegal aliens to have welfare. Mosques welcome here and there is no place for hate and all that. A chicken in every pot, pot for every chicken. SO WHAT IF IT IS AGAINST MY ECONOMIC INTERESTS AND I CAN’T AFFORD ANYTHING, THE PLANET IS AT STAKE!!!! OH THE HUMANITY. But I pulled the lever for the democrat rather than that racist, sexist, homophobic other guy so I FEEL better.”
I could go on and on with the high cost, ludicrous policies of utopian NJ and other blue states that have driven their businesses out but we know them all. But here is the catch, the liberal, drone morons do not completely live with the cost of their idiocy. Oh no, instead come Federal Tax time they get to blunt, not nearly eliminate by any means, but blunt, their tax burden by lessening their taxes (the revenue the Federal Gov. receives). The rest of the country can pick up the slack so that the good people of NJ can continue to swim in their sewage treatment plant.
Bonus, once they start smelling the sewage they (like Californians) move to greener pastures and enact that same damn stupid policies.
Well, it is high time for a little reality to interrupt the regularly scheduled demagogue, emotional diarrhea motivation of the NJ voter. It is time for them to learn a little cause and effect. PSSST, NJ voters, don’t want to pay higher taxes then start at HOME and stop lock stepping to the polls and voting to fund corruption and high in the sky taxes. And if you do move out, then let the lessons learned here sink in. If you go to a red state and turn it into NJ, then you will suffer the same consequences. Cause and effect liberal children. Time to grow the eff up.
Quote: “The Federal Government MUST cut their spending by at least 10%. Shut down useless agencies and fire useless employees. I am absolutely certain that the government can operate with 15% less employees.”
And therein lies the true rub. The real problem I think most of us have is that we are talking taxes without so much as a mention of spending. Truly, the cowards have to make something that is necessary revenue neutral because they don’t dare cut the supply off to their donors.
What about starting with base line budgeting? How about that for a bold but simple fix?
The elimination of the medical expense deduction is a huge tax hit for my middle class Mom & Dad..Dad is in skilled nursing with an $8K+ monthly bill being paid by my Mom out of their savings. Bad bill...look out for the middle class 1st then drop the corp. tax rate...not to mention still no balanced budget via cuts or revenue...deficit still climbs.
I never intended to imply that you were a NeverTrumper . . . I was commenting on your word ‘commie’ - sorry I was not clear and gave you the wrong impression.
FAKE NEWS
An American husband and wife with 2 kids making 75K will get a 60% tax reduction, amounting to over $2,000 more in their pocket.
Quote:
- cut the rates for everyone making below the mean or average.
-Allow teachers to deduct the school supplies they purchase
-allow people who actually WORK physically for a living to deduct ALL clothing and tool expenses; if your don’t get dirty, and face physical risk, and heat and cold it ain’t work.
-Allow all medical expenses UP TO, say 20K to be deducted...
Who defines what the “mean” or “average” is. The democrats define this as anyone making any money. My wife is a teacher and deducts school supplies, it makes little difference.
As for the medical expenses, YOU ARE RIGHT ON!!!
Either gross or net.
Mean, median or mode.
Anything that is consistent.
3x minimum or less would be my pick. My point is that we could very easily cut taxes for people below a certain amount without effecting “the rich”.
I, personally am going to probably be OK with this bill, but it is going to hurt a lot of people I know.
As far as the rest of your post, yes, local and state fiefdoms are out of control tax and spending wise. But this bill punishes millions of innocents in a twisted attempt to stop the guilty from harming the innocent. It won’t work, and only magnifies the hurt on middle class families.
You still cannot grasp the difference between people keeping more their own money from confiscatory taxation, and direct cash payments from the government to Takers whose funds came from taxation itself. Perhaps you do understand, but you feign ignorance because the facts do not serve your argument.
You're correct, and I am so sorry about your Dad. Your Mom should not be facing this kind of hit, but she definitely will be if this bill passes the Senate tomorrow or Friday.
I have a former co-worker in a very similar situation, and she is under tremedous emotional strain, trying to figure out how they are going to survive this financial hit - and all of it caused because the GOPe is raping our deductions so that the corporations can make out like bandits in this bill.
Please accept my prayer for you:
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Lord Jesus, all that exists in the world is yours. And all that we have, you have generously given to us. Father, if it be your will, I pray that this tax bill does not pass the Senate. Many middle class families will be hurt by it, and I believe it to be unjust. But let your will be done, not mine. I lift up Drago, and his parents. Please comfort them, especially his father who requires skilled medical care. Remind us Lord not to love money, but to constantly give you the glory for your provision and the blessings in our life. I ask all of these things in the name of Christ. Amen.
This is a simple math problem and you two keep harping about a semantic difference when I’m just looking at the end result.
Look at it this way:
If your tax bill is $1000 and you take a $200 deduction then you pay $800.
If your tax bill is $1000 and you get a $200 subsidy then you pay $800.
When the net result of a subsidy or tax deduction is the same then there is no functional difference between a subsidy and a deduction.
In the case of the SALT people in states with higher state and local taxes end up paying less Federal taxes than people in states where people pay less state and local taxes.
You may see that as a deduction and God bless your heart for seeing it that way.
But I can assure you that your state government properly sees it as a subsidy because without the SALT people like yourselves will turn your attention to them and start demanding that they lower your taxes.
Again, I’d prefer a flat tax with no deductions whatsoever. Everyone pays the same regardless of how much they pay their CPA and their attorneys.
“If your tax bill is $1000 and you take a $200 deduction then you pay $800.
If your tax bill is $1000 and you get a $200 subsidy then you pay $800.”
That’s a perfect example Megan.
In the first case, I pay $800 because the government has collected only $800 from me. Nobody else pays anything.
In the second case I pay $800 because the government used $200 it collected from somebody else to make up the difference in MY bill. The government still got their $1,000.
They got $800 from me and forced somebody else to pay $200 on my behalf.
“They got $800 from me and forced somebody else to pay $200 on my behalf.”
And in the case of how SALT impacts Federal taxes that someone else who pays the $200 is my family because we live in a state where we don’t get the same value of deduction as you do.
So if you and I make the same amount of money then you pay less in Federal taxes than I do due to the SALT. And the Federal tax I pay makes up the difference that you don’t pay.
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