Posted on 07/25/2017 12:15:08 AM PDT by aquila48
Based on what, exactly? We spend hundreds of billions on pork every year. The benefit is net negative to taxpayers.
There is zero evidence to support that contention.
LOL Yeah - because transportation (or any major infrastructure) has NEVER been funded without government assistance in history? LOL!! If there is profit involved, eventually the cost of the project will work or it won't. Just look at Shale oil & nat gas production - which has paid FAR, FAR more benefits than Tesla has - at zero cost to the USGOVT - in fact its generating a ton of taxes directly and indirectly - and has massively lowered the cost of energy across the country. Obviously you either work for Tesla or have a hard on for the guy. Either way you are just a tool.
We spend far more on "welfare" than on the small federal subsidies to business startups. Admittedly, some of that welfare "is" pork. But look at the huge expansion of the economy that has resulted from the relatively small subsidies that go to private companies.
"Just look at Shale oil & nat gas production - which has paid FAR, FAR more benefits than Tesla has - at zero cost to the USGOVT - in fact its generating a ton of taxes directly and indirectly - and has massively lowered the cost of energy across the country.
You think the oil and gas industry doesn't also get taxpayer-funded support?? Sorry, but wrong. A LOT of the research that went into shale was federally funded and done at Universities.
"Obviously you either work for Tesla or have a hard on for the guy."
Neither. IMO, even if "Tesla the company" eventually proves non-viable, its contributions to battery technology won't disappear, and will boost the economy far into the future.
And, IMO, history will remember Musk more for his SpaceX effort than for either PayPal or Tesla.
"Either way you are just a tool.
Nope....just a guy who follows science and tech after retiring from a successful career in industry.
The Oil and gas industry gets very little taxpayer funds. They do get things like accelerated depreciation (pushing out taxes), etc. The last leftist blog that linked to all the "subsidies" oil & etc got was over 95% simply depreciation and accelerated depreciation. Hardly unique and not really a subsidy - simply pushing out tax liabilities. In the last 3 years, Exxon mobile alone has paid $23 BILLION, net, in taxes. And that's just one company. TSLA paid 48 million in that time frame, likely all state and local tax fees and $0 federal, while receiving a direct federal subsidy of $5 billion in revenue, and arguably more as probably 75%+ of their sales would not have occurred without the subsidy.
Nope....just a guy who follows science and tech after retiring from a successful career in industry.
Like I was getting at, you are just another socialist with his hand in the cookie jar.
LOL. The only time I was using taxpayer money was a year in grad school when my dissertation professor had an EPA grant.
The entire rest of my working life has been in profit-driven businesses.
How that makes me a "socialist with his hand in the cookie jar" escapes me.
When you believe your profit driven business should get government funds to improve (or in the case of Tesla, keep it open) your profit driven business, your hand is in the cookie jar.
In other words, the purist libertarian perspective.
Well sorry, dude, because I an in favor of what the US has historically done and has been shown to work in the real world, not some theoretical fantasy, either libertarian OR Marxist.
Like I stated earlier, a tool and a socialist with his hand in the pot. You can believe “it works in the real world” but 90 times out of 100, it fails, and is just a sunk cost, and 9 out of 100 the only winner is the owner(s) with maybe 1 out of 100 (eg: railroads) benefiting the entire country - although it’s likely they would have occurred anyway, albeit later when costs were lower from tech improvements.
What history says is that even if 90 out of 100 fail, the benefit from the 10 out of 100 that succeed is more than sufficient to pay for the failed 90 many many times over. And that REALITY is why I support the policy. Which, btw, is NOT "socialism". Once upon a time, it was actually recognized as the "American system". If that makes me a "tool", then so be it.
LOL tell yourself whatever you want to make yourself feel better, pal. You are right one one thing - socialism probably isn’t the right word here - Corporate fascism is a better description.
“You are right one one thing - socialism probably isn’t the right word here - Corporate fascism is a better description.”
Relieve your ignorance here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_System_(economic_plan)
You might note that it was Democrats who opposed it. There have obviously been changes over the years. Mostly that the system of incentives has proven to be sufficiently effective by itself such that tariffs turned out not to be necessary.
Far from being “corporate fascism”, established corporations actually hate the idea, as it increases competition and innovation.
You think I care what you think or believe at this point or that a wiki link will? LOL.
Willful ignorance is not a virtue. I have facts...you have an un-informed opinion. Bye!
LOL Like I said, believe whatever makes you sleep better at night. The entire US federal budget in 1960 in 2005$ was about $150 billion - including SS, military etc. Today its nearly $3.5T. Go back 100 years before 1960 and we spent around $1 billion in 2005 at the federal level in TOTAL. There is no historical evidence to support significant levels of pork, investment, etc from the government until the last 60 years, and the results have been dismal with real GDP growth massively lagging pre-ramp of Government “investments.”
Put another way, we spent more last year on “global warming & research” in real $ than we did in 1850 in real $ (ie inflation adjusted) at the ENTIRE federal government level including the military and debt servicing did in 1850. Musk is no hero. Just a guy with his hand (deeply) in the cookie jar.
I repeat...willful ignorance is no virtue. The policy of government investment is there from virtually the beginning of the US government, of which I have pointed out several concrete examples.
What HAS been a massive failure has been spending on social welfare, which has expanded hugely, and which accounts for pretty much all the massive growth in federal spending. The tiny amount spent for the activities the constitute investments aren't even a blip in that.
Musk = grifter.
Again, I gave you actual government spending data and you just ignore it. Goodbye, tool.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.