Posted on 12/26/2015 3:42:01 PM PST by aimhigh
Completely agree with you. Those who assert they do not believe in God must do so IN SPITE OF all of creation declaring His glory. They are “without excuse” as Scripture says. Yet, because of God’s great love, mercy and grace, He is willing to forgive and save to the uttermost all those who come to Him in faith.
He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. He will be found when we search for Him with all our hearts. How immensely sad that so many have hardened their hearts against so great a love. They will have all eternity to regret their choices. We must pray for their eyes and hearts to be opened to the truth and love them to Christ whenever we have an opportunity.
If you want to work this hard in playing semantics, go right ahead. You will win, but it won’t make a difference in the end. In doing so, you have proven the Word of God (that pesky Mideastern law you want to ignore) to be totally true, although you won’t admit it.
Perhaps some have to work at convincing themselves what they believe is true? They suffer from doubts even in their unbelief.
If someone really believes God doesn’t exist, then why would they care if anyone disagreed with them or not? What difference does it make? I highly suspect a proselytizing atheist.
It is indeed very sad. My heart droops. He has such a great and unimaginable love for His people - way beyond our comprehension. Yet, scripture says that we work hard to suppress that truth. And that is obvious on this thread, and many others over the years. I pray their eyes will be opened, as He opened mine.
Actually, I think it is a bored nobody who has no concept of God, and is destined for Hell. Any claim that they would be excluded from Heaven is fabrication in their minds. If they are atheist, they deny the very concept of Heaven.
I think this one is an attention seeker at best! We commonly refer to them as TROLLS or Attention Whores! Don't respond to it any more. It only seeks attention!
Would you spend your time “seriously discussing” anything with someone who believed they were Napoleon? Because that is how I feel about theists. I think you are all moderately mentally ill, I really do. Now, right now I’m on vacation, a little bored, recovering from some truly miserable dental work (I have Irish teeth) and so, why not. But to be serious? You believe in ancient Hebrew fairy tales. You are not one whit more rational to me than crazed Muslim bombers. You are merely much less violent. (And I do appreciate that Christians are less violent, let me make that clear.)
If I have proven it to YOUR satisfaction, peace be upon you. Go your way in a welter of satisfaction, stranger. It won’t change my life a bit.
Don’t be so quick to pat yourself on the back. You have not proven anything to my satisfaction. The Lord Jesus Christ did that over 50 years ago. I just am always a amazed when I see people who try to disapprove His Word always end up proving it in their words and/or actions. It actually is very sad, but I know you don’t understand that at all. I don’t expect you to, although it is my hope that you will be someday before it is too late.
Uh huh. Hey, if you are happy, I am happy.
And why do you not understand why i brought it up? This goes back to your assertion of being law-abiding atheist. To which i asked , "But what is your supreme moral standard to which you appeal and by which we can judge you by?"
And to which you simply invoked of the laws of this country, but which as i pointed out "a Communist atheist could claim the same for his obedience, thus the question of higher appeal." And "So the issue here on pro-Christian God FR for atheists who who reject any supreme universal standard, is the warrant for themselves being the supreme standard versus the Bible."
Which resulted in your recourse to arguing that Christians themselves are be the supreme interpreter of the Bible, but as i have pointed out, at least they have a supreme standard to interpret,
But in trying to negate this your ploy was to reject that even "Christian" (True Scotsman) has a definitive source, and to again and again invoke disagreements btwn Christians as, even to asserting Christian "just make it up [answers to questions such as rape] out of their heads" contrary to Scripture having a basic universal unifying doctrinal and social effect. And after i refuted that multiple charge rant then your recourse was "don't have the time or inclination."
Thus it remains that while it is substantiated that those who actually hold to a supreme standard realize the strongest unity (the question then being which warrants being supreme), atheists do not even have any transcendent atheistic supreme standard to judge issues by, and to which he can be held, but can justify doing evil as much as a religionist can.
Once that is settled, the issue becomes the case for Scripture being the supreme standard.
And it becomes even more useless if you dismiss any member of that group that does NOT support certain elements of the doctrine
Not so, if we are dealing with an defining source(s). Otherwise you might as well argue that Ronald Regan was a Commie.
As said you can define "True Scotsman" anyway you want, as you lack any supreme interpretative authority, but Scripture is the source of the title "Christian" and defines it, thus excluding L. Ron Hubbared, among others.
Oh, sure. Each religion is guided by its mission statement, and "we will be the happy few in Heaven" is a less aggressive goal than "we shall rule the Earth." Unfortunately Islam's more coherent (Mohammed clearly knew exactly what he wanted) which makes it more dangerous.
I know nothing about Nuremberg and have no idea what you are talking about. I'm not a lawyer, despite what metmom thinks.
... atheists who who reject any supreme universal standard, is the warrant for themselves being the supreme standard...
And my response to that is, No. American law really is my supreme standard, and I'll tell you why: I don't always agree with it. I would very, very much like to mete out my own punishments to people who do things that displease me. And frankly, I think my judgment is excellent, and that if I think someone needs to be executed, then they need to be executed. With me as judge and jury, let me tell you, this country would get cleaned up very, very quickly.
But it cannot be. My personal opinions, precious though they are to me, cannot be my guide, or I'll end up in jail. So I live by American law.
Now, you can say "that's not enough," but the fact is, it seems to be enough for me. I have lived calmly and productively as an atheist in America for a very long time now. I do my job, pay my bills, clean my house, tend my various duties, maintain civil relationships, and obey the law. And ... that's kind of it. I have no idea why anyone needs more. Seriously. It baffles me, this whole layer of myth and magic some people dabble in.
First, I understand you were pinged many times to this thread. I’ve had that in a couple of threads I started.
But something I think nevertheless, A Perfect Lady, is that you still selectively reply here, not according to time concerns, but to avoid what you want to avoid. You selectively reply to certain posts, and to certain parts of posts.
Twice now I’ve asked you if you’ve wronged others in your life - if others would have just cause to believe you’ve wronged them. As important as that issue is to your claims of righteousness, you’ve skipped replying on that.
And while picking at the replies of others and how they answer you (for the most part, wrongly), even with at least one poster criticizing them for not answering you, you haven’t acknowledged the blatantly false claim you made in saying that you ceased to exist when you were under anesthesia.
You seem untroubled by the possibility of your own sin and errors, and to instead think that by consistently ignoring them you can make them not exist. That’s magical thinking. It’s as though you believe you’re your own God, and can decide what matters and what doesn’t, even including where that affects other people in what you say to them, and how you treat them.
A Perfect Lady, I don’t believe people actually don’t know there’s a God. The Bible says they do, but instead deny that knowledge because to them doing whatever it is they want to do is more important than following what’s good and true. Your tendency to use denial and avoidance has been demonstrated in this thread.
And given that tendency, I have to mention that there’s truly no way to discuss things with you that serves the goal of both of us pursuing truth, as you simply believe yourself to be logical (without sufficient evidence, but just on your own belief about yourself) and others to be illogical, and there’s no moving the conversation past such flaws as long as you hold to that. Conversation like this could be thought to be a waste of time for those of us talking to you, but in fact it does do beneficial things for us, as we make the effort to talk to you. The real question is whether or not it is of any true benefit to you, as it doesn’t appear so.
As for being untroubled by sin, you are right, I'm not troubled at all. I don't believe in original sin anymore than I believe that a white person is born guilty of racism, a rich man is to blame for poverty, or that all men are guilty of rape simply by virtue of being male. Why should I?
If you choose to accept any of those burdens and let them twist your mind until you NEED forgiveness by either God or Danny Glover or Bernie Sanders or Gloria Steinem, that is your choice.
But if there's one thing I learned early in life, it's that no one can make you feel guilty unless you let them. And it's very telling of religion that someone who doesn't feel bad about themselves doesn't respond to it.
You read into things. Of course you can answer who you want, and what you want. That IS your choice. But it’s also the choice of other people to interpret your choices and comment about them as THEY see fit. That latter freedom is the same one you apparently believe you have in commenting on other people. You’ve proven that in this thread. I don’t see you deferring to the opinions of others here merely because they hold them.
And you’ve wronged “a couple people”? I can’t believe that. As a Christian, I know I’ve wronged people all the time, and continue to, though not to the same level I have in the past. And I know other people wrong other people all the time as well.
“But if there’s one thing I learned early in life, it’s that no one can make you feel guilty unless you let them.”
Now that’s a statement I have some personal familiarity with. I’ve learned a lot about that myself. It’s only in more recent years that I’ve stopped allowing others a considerable amount of access to my “guilt buttons,” as I came to realize that people can be manipulating others by doing so, or fishing for guilt (sometimes just because they’re not sure who should feel guilty, or guiltier), by doing so. When I was partly right and partly wrong, I felt disadvantaged that I’d admit my guilt, when some people in my family didn’t. And when I actually hadn’t done anything wrong, I’d still feel upset to have them trying to make me feel guilty, especially when they didn’t respond to others’ efforts to try to make them feel guilty, even when they should. They tended to see it all as unjust manipulation. But rarely, they would admit to being wrong, and that seemed to be the evidence that satisfied them that they were moral people. Now, I don’t just let people push my guilt buttons. But I also don’t dismiss their trying to do so as mere manipulation, or even as wrong, out of hand. I evaluate if there truly is a reason to feel guilty, or if I’m maybe mistaken about things, and keep that question open. I ask for God to show me the truth. As for the years when I was upset to feel disadvantaged against people who didn’t respond to legitimate prods for them to feel guilty, I don’t regret that in the least. It was part of my life, it helped develop the person I am and the abilities, knowledge and discernment I have, and I’d truly rather err on the side of feeling guilty when I shouldn’t, then not feeling guilty when I should.
Hey, whatever works for you. But I’m not buying that package, so... (shrug.)
Yes we all make our choices, and one day God will judge them, and us.
I’ve been a Freeper for a long time. I’m also an atheist. It’s just not worth arguing about this. I respect the mission of this site. It’s just a fact that the vast majority of posters are believing Christians. I’ve giving up complaining about the Catholic v Protestant threads even though I think it’s a blemish on the site. So be it. You can be pro-gun, pro-life, anti-big government, anti-open borders, pro-business, pro-flat tax...etc, and still not believe in a supreme being. I’m sure I’ll get some responses soon saying some version of “no you can’t!!!”
I guess my point is...just let it go. I know it can be entertaining ( for both sides), but nobody’s changing any minds in the long run. Let’s all just agree to hate Muslims and get on with lowering taxes. Peace.
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