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Marine Rebuked for Performing at Donald Trump Rally in Uniform
Military.com ^ | Dec 01, 2015 | Hope Hodge Seck

Posted on 12/04/2015 9:24:23 AM PST by Fundamentally Fair

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To: Echo4C
1344.10 specifically applies to active duty service members - this guy is a reservist.

Check out 1334.1 "Wearing of the Uniform" 3.1 (I reformatted the PDF for yesterday's thread, but since that got deleted, I'm not going to put the effort into it again. It specifically covers reservists.

21 posted on 12/04/2015 11:00:52 AM PST by PAR35
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To: Fundamentally Fair

My point is that 1344.10 (like every other DoD directive) carries no weight if it has no teeth. The only way to prosecute someone for a violation of a directive like this is through the UCMJ (likely an article 92 violation) - which doesn’t apply to reservists when they aren’t at drill.

I knew a lot of reservists that would show up early to drill with beards and walk past officers (I even knew an officer or two that did this) and nothing was done to them. As long as they were in regulation when the drill started, growing a beard was perfectly legal as a reservist.

Note that this is different if he were to have posted something on his Facebook page that was disparaging towards his chain of command - even if he posted it when not at drill, he could be prosecuted if it was still there when he went to drill.


22 posted on 12/04/2015 11:02:12 AM PST by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

In all fairness, this was preached back when I was on active duty with the Marines in the early 1980s, when Reagan was CIC.


23 posted on 12/04/2015 11:05:03 AM PST by SamAdams76 (It's time we sent a junkyard dog to Washington to run the low life out)
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To: PAR35

See my post above. A DoD directive may reference reservists, but a violation of that directive is a UCMJ violation (article 92) - which doesn’t apply to reservists when not at drill. DoD can put out whatever directive they want, but they can’t prosecute a reservist under the UCMJ for what happens away from drill (unless that person still has drugs in their system when they show up to drill - that’s a different story).


24 posted on 12/04/2015 11:06:06 AM PST by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Echo4C
Understand.

More info:

DoD Ethics Counselor's Desk Book, October 2015

Off-installation political events. All members of the Armed Forces are prohibited from wearing military uniforms at political campaign or elections events. This prohibition is not applicable to the joint color guards at the opening ceremonies of national political conventions

Further

Members of the Armed Forces also includes retirees and members of the Reserve Components not on active duty including, for section 4.3, members of the National Guard even when in non-Federal status.

25 posted on 12/04/2015 11:23:57 AM PST by Fundamentally Fair (Pictionary at the Rorschach's tonight!)
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To: Fundamentally Fair
Yes, but the section that specifically says what members of the armed services are NOT allowed to do, begins:

Prohibited political activities (Section 4.1.2). A member of the Armed Forces on active duty shall not:

1. Participate in partisan political fundraising activities, rallies, conventions, management of campaigns, or debates. The prohibition is broad and does not depend on whether a member is in uniform or even whether an inference of official endorsement can be drawn;

Please show me, specifically, where it says what reservists are not allowed to do, and what the applicable punishment is. There's a reason this guy wasn't busted in rank or anything (though I guarantee his chain of command probably said "please don't do that").
26 posted on 12/04/2015 11:34:25 AM PST by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Echo4C
Please show me...

I cannot.

27 posted on 12/04/2015 1:24:41 PM PST by Fundamentally Fair (Pictionary at the Rorschach's tonight!)
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To: Fundamentally Fair

Unless he was directed by his superiors to sing the anthem as a part of his duties, the Joint Ethics Reg specifically prohibits military members, whether on active orders or not, from appearing at political events in uniform on behalf of any candidate.


28 posted on 12/05/2015 11:17:55 AM PST by jagusafr
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To: jagusafr; SJSAMPLE; HarleyLady27; jdege; E. Pluribus Unum; stanne; 2banana; gov_bean_ counter; ...

Thanks

ALL: See previous post


29 posted on 12/05/2015 7:03:55 PM PST by Fundamentally Fair (Pictionary at the Rorschach's tonight!)
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To: jagusafr

And what’s the prosecution mechanism? A UCMJ violation (article 92)?

Then there is no prosecution mechanism - reservists aren’t subject to the UCMJ when not at drill or on AT.

http://www.ucmj.us/about-the-ucmj

“Members of the military Reserve Components under Title 10 of the United States Code (Army Reserve, Navy Reserve, Marine Forces Reserve, and Air Force Reserve) or Title 14 of the United States Code, Coast Guard Reserve when not operating as part of the U.S. Navy, are subject to the UCMJ if they are either (a) active duty Full-Time Support personnel such as FTS or Active Guard and Reserve (AGR), or (b) traditional part-time reservists performing either (a) full-time active duty for a specific period (i.e., Annual Training, Active Duty for Training, Active Duty for Operational Support, Active Duty Special Work, One Year Recall, Three Year Recall, Canvasser Recruiter, Mobilization, etc.), or (b) performing Inactive Duty (i.e. Inactive Duty Training, Inactive Duty Travel and Training, Unit Training Assembly, Additional Training Periods, Additional Flying Training Periods, Reserve Management Periods, etc., all of which are colloquially known as “drills”).”

The only time I’ve ever heard of a reservist being punished for something that happened away from drill is when their actions spilled over into drill, like failing a drug test.


30 posted on 12/06/2015 4:18:10 AM PST by Echo4C (We have it in our power to begin the world over again. --Thomas Paine)
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To: Echo4C

For National Guard components, there are state versions of the UCMJ (TXCMJ, OKCMJ, etc). They typically govern activity specifically when NOT on federal orders.

For reservists, I think you have an interesting point. The “not at drill” excuse has been used to screw plenty a guardsman and reservist. The reg appears to my untrained eye to be well outside what is provided in the law. But then that’s nothing new, is it.


31 posted on 12/06/2015 2:32:58 PM PST by cizinec (Liberty is the only political "party" that deserves our loyalty.)
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To: Echo4C

LOR and potentially establishment of a UIF at the next drill is normally what happens in cases like this, and they’re more common than you may think, especially during campaign season.


32 posted on 12/06/2015 3:46:33 PM PST by jagusafr
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