Posted on 07/10/2015 6:57:22 PM PDT by Pyro7480
Copy and paste a quote from me where I said that..
I never would have, so I know you can't.
Then why are you continuing to defend the whole lesser evil thing if you don’t support it? Because that makes absolutely no sense.
I mean you don’t see pro lifers out there making excuses for abortion right? Because that would make no sense either. So why make excuses for lesser evil voting? Is it just a personality conflict with me? That would make sense.
I never said, nor have I ever used the term “lesser evil”.
It takes a ignorant person to think that way. I am not ignorant.
I know several people like you who have a stated mantra and vote that way regardless of the circumstances. This is not very productive if the conditions are not in your favor and in politics, it means nothing to the political system. in other words you will achieve nothing and you will likely hurt your own cause, whatever that is..
It happened in 1976 with the Ford-Dole campaign and carter won, again in 1996 with the Dole campaign against Clinton when the religious right conservatives either did not show up or voted a protest candidate.
It happened again with McCain, and again with Romney.
The facts are easy to understand here because in none of these cases of protest votes, did the GOP listen or even acknowledge it. They simply doubled down and attacked the conservatives as they always do, simply because they could.
So now we enter 2016, and conditions have changed. people are PO’d across the conservative spectrum and the movement has grown as a result. We have more power now and if we are to send a message and risk hurting ourselves, the time to do it is 2016.
Not going to explain this again. There is really not much point to beating my head against a brick wall of denial.
By the way....you continue to say I am making excuses. That is not correct.
What you are calling excuses are the factual basis for my argument.
Why are not Impeachment proceedings being held this very moment?
Oh, that’s right. The “Republicans.”
Please. Just please. Every freeper there is knows that the multiply disproven arguments have been made for years of the ‘lesser evil’ of people like Romney over Obama. Or Mitch/Jonbon over powerless freshmen dems.
It doesn’t really matter if you use the words ‘lesser evil’ You are making their argument. You argue for someone/thing other than what conservatives believe in a better alternative to a democrat. That argument just handed Iraq another win, handed Democrats multiple wins and wrecked America as we can see every time we look out the door, drive to the store or open a web browser.
You find someone that isn’t conservative acceptable? Thats your call. But you or anyone doing so is no conservative. I don’t know what some people think believing in something means or standing on principle means, but it sure as hell isn’t suggesting alternatives to your own belief set and trying to convince others to forget their political beliefs and morality come election day to ‘win no matter what’.
Every election multiple someones on every right wing outlet there is demand we do that because it’s a world ending most important election EVAH! Every election people compromise their principle and beliefs and every election we install more evil/idiocy/leftism into DC.
Then we come to sites like FR and cry like children about what happened. And like children, refuse to learn from our own mistakes.
SOMEBODY put those RINOs in office. Not Democrats. And not Conservatives that voted for Conservatives. So who was it? Spiderman?
If Zero and his gang can ignore the SCOTUS on this, I don’t see any reason why anyone is bound by the gay marriage decision.
Call out the national guards to enforce a SCOTUS decision against the federal government. It was good enough for Little Rock in ‘57. Why not the feds?
I’m not complaining..
You can after me and I pointed out the flaw in what you did in 2012. It cost too much to get nothing..
All we were trying to do is deny Obama a second term.
2016, as I have stated multiple times is different. It’s a open election and the Dems have a crappy slate.
We have room to maneuver, and send the GOP a message they cannot deny, just like we did when we elected Reagan. The GOP tried to stop him as well and us..
I’m just old enough to know how all this works and you keep saying I am making excuses and voting for some sort of lesser evil.
What you are saying essentially is that for totally emotional reasons in 2012, you decided it was better that Obama gets a second term because Romney was not conservative enough.
If that’s what you think, then say it.
Stop talking in circles..
I disagree with what you did in 2012. the cost was too high to achieve nothing.
Again I am telling you that 2016 is the election to do what you did in 2012.
I suppose over time, maybe every 3 or 4th election, you will end up doing the right thing by way of consistency, just like a broken clock is right twice per day.
I don’t do that.
No, Spiderman had no input, unless he votes.
It appears to me that you honestly believe that the Conservative movement has a lot of clout and can control elections.
The only thing we can do is cause the GOP to lose them. if we do not turn out they will lose everytime.
It’s all we have as a lever, and the GOP is trying to damage the movement and take that lever away so they don’t have to deal with it.
You cannot use that lever in every election because it aids the democrats when we do it. I gave you a list of those losses.
Let me put it this way, In your voting history, how many times has a conservative republican made it through the primary and was chosen as the nominee in the last 50 years????
I can tell you....the answer is twice. Reagan’s 1st and 2nd terms.
So by your logic it’s better to lose every election and somehow this will help, unless there is a conservative candidate.
Well for the 1st time in 30 years we have a potential that we can send a conservative candidate to the general. his name is Ted Cruz. If the republican party goes against us on this and they will, Conservatives alone cannot get him elected. If cruz is not the nominee, then what you did in 2012 is warranted in 2016 because the GOP has doubled down for the last 4 years on their attacks against conservatives. They had not done this before they won the House back.
Because of this situation and because of the unusual circumstances of this election, Conservatives do have a lever to play by simply staying home for the general if we have a Bush or Kasich etc. The no vote will show up as a stat (low turnout, few conservatives). The GOP has to take notice.
That is if we cannot get Cruz through the primary of course. I am trying to vet Walker as a second possibility due to his excellent work fighting dems in Wisconsin, but I am not sure his immigration stance will pass the smell test.
As I said, there are times to fight back, and times to keep the powder dry. 2016 is the time to fight.
I do not do the same thing every year without considering the outcome vs damages. I am not a mindless robot. And I am not making excuses.
You are.
Your excuse is that you don’t have one and you keep repeating it over and over and over. All you have is a desire to vote for conservatives...but that’s kinda hard to do when there are none to vote for.
Voting for Romney in 2012 would not have somehow increased the number of RINO’s. Voting for Romney, even if it was only for one term, would have denied Obama his 2nd term.
I vote smart, not with blinders on..
It’s a long war....
Thats where you are sadly mistaken. Ask President Romney about conservative clout.
Oh thats right. There is no president Romney because we denied that liberal POS our vote. Doesn’t mean we didn’t vote though. Most of us did.
As we will with whatever fraud the GOP sends instead of a conservative. And if America burns because of it, Well, You should have joined us.
“Despite repeatedly losing its cases over the Obamacare contraceptive mandate at the U.S. Supreme Court, the Department of Health and Human Services announced Friday that it will continue to force religious organizations to distribute contraceptives – including the “week-after pill” – to their employees.”
This reminds me of the scene in the Woodie Allen movie “Bananas” where a crazy dictator mandated that his peasants wear their underpants outside their street clothes instead of underneath.
I will do so this year if I must, but I won't vote for a throwaway anyone because I believe that doing that gains us, as conservatives, NOTHING.
Let me address your comment about the lesser of two evils.
What you are accusing me of is pragmatism. I am NOT pragmatic.
Karl rove is pragmatic, GOP ers who claim they are conservative and then vote the opposite position for whatever reason are pragmatic. The Bush's are all pragmatists to one degree or another. All of the DC elite conservative reporters are pragmatists.
I vote conservative where possible, but My vote for a pragmatist like Romney is not a pragmatic vote if the potential damages caused by not voting for him are clear and obvious to me and there are no other reasonable options. Voting for some indy populist with no support just to say I voted is not in my toolkit.
I would advise a no vote, just skip it...or don't turn out.
Ask President Romney about conservative clout.
That question has been asked...he said we have no clout just as the GOP has said many times, and Rove and Jeb Bush and the democrats, and they have moved to court Hispanics and Reagan democrats, since they already have the independents.
The fact that the GOP cabal says something pretty much tells you it’s untrue. When have they been correct?
They don’t want conservatives because we oppose what they are about. Liberalism. they made a choice to swap us for liberal voters. That failed.
So they doubled down and went even HARDER left with mitch and jonbon actually campaigning on working with Barry. The liberal/moderates in the GOP elected them. Cochran and Mitch even went dull Democrat to bring in Dems to keep Cochran’s seat. Because conservatives, ACTUAL conservatives were not there.
Even though I am no fan of Trump, Today showed what a mistake that decision was for the GOP. So believing them about conservative clout might not be advisable.
There is a time and place to help shove this country off the edge of the cliff. This would mean no possible options for recovery. In 2012 I felt confident that we might have been able to recover if we denied Obama a second term. This did not happen. 2016 is different. I am now confident that we cannot recover. There are a dozen reasons for this that I won't address now. But I am convinced that we and much of the rest of the world will be in chaos in due time.. not sure how much time, but my estimate is 20-30 years. In 20-30 years I will have checked out, probably much sooner. But that does not matter because I have grandchildren and great grandchildren to think about. You have been around this forum for a long time. I have read your posts over the years and if I recall you were a Duncan Hunter fan.(might be wrong) Unfortunately Duncan never had a chance, and his campaign fizzled before it ever got off the ground. Fred's campaign was a mess and he is not as conservative as one might think..he too is a pragmatist. AS I said we have the 1st real conservative that has a chance, albeit a small one, to get through the primary into the final 4, so to speak. Let's hope he does so, so that I don't have to take election day off in 2016.
The GOP is not doing what they are doing for barry..
They are doing it in one case for the Hispanic votes, and on the other for the money from the corporate donors.
The GOP has descended into crony capitalism.
Apparently, in some limited sense you are
WE are in agreement...100% The GOP has become tired of us, and is trying to cut us out of the loop as a necessary part of the republican electorate. They do this in the same way the democrats have cut loose their white males. When I quote their comments (negative) about conservatives, I am assuming that we both know that they cannot admit that conservatives have any clout. They don't like us and will deny association with us, as they try to replace our votes..
To me it seems that the GOP and the Dems are the same unit. The ‘optical’ difference is that the GOP acts as a pressure relief valve to give the illusion of choice because their record shows them paying lots of lip service and losing a lot of close votes that defy rational explanation.
Because that illusion has been maintained, they still get the votes, people still think they are ‘fighting Obama/Democrat destruction’, Reagan is in his heaven and all is right with the party.
But the Dems always seem to get what they want with minority status in 2 houses. Odd that. Rinse and repeat every 2 years.
But not so odd if you accept the above.
I have said a few times I 100% support WHAT he is saying. I just don’t think he believes it himself, nor will he act on it when both houses of congress shut him down.
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