Posted on 03/07/2014 11:58:34 AM PST by SoConPubbie
Well... they both can be defined as a consumption tax. But, as I said, the flat income tax retains the IRS, retains withholding, retains payroll taxes, is not border adjusted like an nrst, and retains business taxes. Those attributes are why I don't like any income tax.
Cruz is spot on here leverage the IRS scandal to move the ball forward.
Amen!!!
This earns my respect. A no BS, Occam’s razor type of solution. How the pigs will squeal at the prospect of a diminished trough!
“For some reason, the opposition is rather vitriolic.
I haven’t figured out why.”
Probably because they cannot envision losing that political tool of class envy and revenue control that I mentioned.
It puts too much control of revenue in the peoples own hands and they can’t handle that.
They know that a totally flat tax will never fly, and that if it did there would still have to be different percentage level income brackets to pay for this huge government monster that has been created.
Politicians use our money to buy votes, if we had too much of our own money we start to not need them.
Each side thinks its just peachy to have totalitarian control when it is in their own hands, as a result centralized government will never shrink.
In reality the abolition of the IRS will never happen without bloodshed.
Ted will just be labeled an extremist.
I would vote for him in a flash.
A flat tax is only simple for wage earners.
Elementary school arithmetic.
How long have R Pols been promising to rid us of NEA, EPA, DOE, NPR etc...believe it goes at least back to Reagan if not before..
And they are all alive and kicking and sucking high on the teat.
Well, clearly if you believe in some kind of corporate tax, then some kind of agency is going to be necessary to enforce the system. And, if Cruz believes that individuals should pay tax (even on a postcard, which is an absolutely ridiculous idea), then something like the IRS is necessary. No, I don't work for them...I fight with them on a regular basis. However, the ridiculous idea of doing away with them, THEN starting a brand new agency called the "Cruz replacement group which will be much nicer than the IRS" is almost laughable. It will cost 100X as much to start over than it would be to clean up the present system.
And, by the way, there will be just as much cheating on his ridiculous "postcard" return as there is now. The problem is (and always has been) defining "Income". Some folks say that income is only wages. Some say it is only investment income. Some say it is neither. The problem isn't the "flat rate" (like Cruz claims), it is defining the thousands of ways to make money, but not make it look like I made money. Capital gain? That was Romney's gimmick. Holding stock? That's Buffet's gimmick. Bartering? That is half of the Preppers gimmick. Without an "IRS", these characters would bring the tax paying public to 4% of the population.
And, as far as a plan...notice the problem. If all individuals take money "in" and spend money "out", then the challenge is to capture a bit of it going each direction. If we have just an "income" tax, then the slick willys find a way to earn it offshore (witness UBS, and the Cayman Islands). If we have just a "sales" tax (a consumption tax) then we will drive folks to buy offshore or through the internet avoiding the 23% sales tax add-on. If you think job creation is tough now, wait until there is no consumption of American made and sold goods.
But...if we lower the income tax rates, remove some of the reasons that a person can use to not file and pay (that is, take away the Earned Income Credit for folks above $ 25K), take away Social Security for the folks earning $ 500K and above and compel everyone to pay some PLUS have a small consumption tax (say 5%, rather than 23%), then we capture some revenue from all folks either coming or going. And. let's face it...even though we would like to tar and feather the guys who ramped up the debt (Obama, the Dembs, the Rinos) WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY it back. So, we might as well face into it and roll up our sleeves.
Your pfftt just went flat.
Granted........but we all get sucked into this idea that we must have some sort of tax on individuals. How about abolish the income tax.....and replace it with NOTHING!
Stop and think! How did government acquire revenue and pay its bills before 1913?
Hint: The Constitution outlines specific ways the Feds should raise revenue. We became the greatest and strongest nation on Earth without an income tax. Educate yourself on how we did it.
Maybe our Federal Government might be a tad smaller if the original methods were re-established.
LOL. Who collects state sales taxes Dutchboy88?
Nobody? eh?
Who?
Are state sales taxes paid?
Who enforces that?
Stuck you are.
Yes please.
Thanks for the ping, TADSLOS.
Senator Cruz knows very well that the FAirTax will abolish the IRS. He makes, IMHO, the same mistake many politicians make in presuming that the IRS will become less intrusive under a flat income tax than it is today. I can make a very convincing case that, in fact, under a flat income tax, the IRS will become even MORE intrusive.
He, like most of the non-cosponsors of the FairTax legislation, needs more education.
Having said all that, it is becoming more and more evident that the income tax and the IRS need to be abolished.
Virtually every day, we Americans are reminded, often forcefully, just how out of control the IRS is with respect to the US Constitution and the FReedoms and Liberties we Americans are SUPPOSED to enjoy.
FairTax is only a start in the right direction, but IT IS A START!
We will never be a FRee people again until the income tax and the IRS are tossed on the ash heap of history!
Yes, you are correct! It is highly likely that the IRS will become even MORE abusive under the flat income tax scheme!
http://www.fairtax.org spells it out very nicely.
Bears repeating: “And if the rate is too high, it means that government is too big. The solution is not to have higher rates but to make government smaller and bring it within its Constitutional bounds.”
Please, before you “popoff” on a serious thread, do some serious research.
The answer to your uneducated comment is available at http://www.fairtax.org.
Do some research, and rejoin the conversation afterwards, please.
That is a most perceptive comment, muffaletaman. Thank you for noticing!
When I give presentations about FairTax, I state, unequivocally, that “CPAs and tax attorneys will be much happier when they can spend ALL their time doing what they have been trained for; helping their clients manage their assets productively. Not only that, they will increase their incomes and have a much better sex life, particularly in January, February, March and April!”
Thanks for the ping, Principled. Been traveling and I am a bit late to this party, but have made several posts that I thought necessary.
After all the heat you have taken for your ignorant comments, you still haven’t gone to the source, have you?
READ THE LEGISLATION — HR 25!
CHECK OUT THE WEBSITE: http://www.fairtax.org.
Come back when you have done that and tell us that your arguments, made in ignorance of the proposed law, make sense!
TAXES AND A CIVILIZED SOCIETY
4 ½ minute video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmYXEwbK1k0&list=UUFDlhK80EdO28R-iGTXiGaw
TAXES AND A CIVILIZED SOCIETY
4 ½ minute video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmYXEwbK1k0&list=UUFDlhK80EdO28R-iGTXiGaw
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