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How Free Trade Is Killing Middle America
The American Conservative ^ | Jan. 24, 2014 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 01/24/2014 6:36:50 AM PST by 1rudeboy

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To: central_va
"That is the beauty here, I am only talking about manufactured goods.:

oh I see, you are going to further dabble in the market by declaring what is and isn't a manufactured good.

Please list for us what is considered so. Also please tell us how you will stop the lobbyists from spending money on getting exemptions for their clients. Then explain how you guarantee all that tariff money will go to paying down the debt or will it just be an excuse to spend even more tax payer dollars on your Unionista/Big Gub'ment boondoggles?

Further, question is gasoline a manufactured good? How about lubricant oil? Will we need to import more of each being we can't get approval for more Oil distilleries due to EPA regs. ? Also consider that being our government is clamping down on carbon emissions how much will that impact on your screwdriver manufactured here in the united states? How do tariffs impact EPA regs., Obamacare costs, Tax compliance costs, OSHA Complaince costs. etc,

Remember all of those issues are still in effect.

121 posted on 01/24/2014 10:31:17 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: 1rudeboy
I am trading my labor for dollars. How does that not “create” wealth for me?

You do but if you track the money you received it all traces back to the big three mining,agriculture and manufacturing. Well except for the fiat money the Fed creates I don't consider that wealth creation. It is BS..

122 posted on 01/24/2014 10:31:24 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

So, I should go out and break some windows to create more wealth? Should we all?


123 posted on 01/24/2014 10:32:05 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Mad Dawgg
oh I see, you are going to further dabble in the market by declaring what is and isn't a manufactured good.

Raw crude oil has never been consider a manufactured good it comes under mining - not manufacturing. Now imported gasoline is a manufactured good subject to tariffs.

124 posted on 01/24/2014 10:34:16 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: khelus; dragnet2
no you see both of you have missed why real wages have decreased and it has nothing to do with tariffs or Unions or EPA etc.

The minimum wage has increased several hundred percent.

But the dollar has been gutted by printing more and more money.

Real wages are gutted by the FED.

125 posted on 01/24/2014 10:34:46 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: 1rudeboy
So, I should go out and break some windows to create more wealth? Should we all?

Sounds Nazi like to me. Not sure I get your point.

126 posted on 01/24/2014 10:37:04 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va

I knew you wouldn’t.


127 posted on 01/24/2014 10:37:49 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
You're thread I will give you the last word.

Thank you for posting this.

128 posted on 01/24/2014 10:38:39 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: central_va
"Now imported gasoline is a manufactured good subject to tariffs."

And (you missed the rest of it) being that the EPA has pretty much closed down building any more oil distillieries in the USA will Gasoline be cheaper or more expensive with your proposed tariff?

129 posted on 01/24/2014 10:40:08 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: 1rudeboy

Your thread not "You're thread" .

130 posted on 01/24/2014 10:40:23 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: cripplecreek

Obama is killing America’s Middle Class. The rise in business taxes and regulations. We are one of the higher taxed countries for business, and it makes people go where they can afford to do business, and Obama care will bankrupt many of the larger business conglomerates, who provide benefits. The atmosphere for business competition is driving us further out of the market prices with other nations.

America could compete if we did NOT have to add all those unnecessary charges to the cost of goods when pricing them, not to mention the Unions.


131 posted on 01/24/2014 10:43:37 AM PST by Kackikat
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To: 1rudeboy

There is no such thing as “free trade” right now


132 posted on 01/24/2014 10:45:19 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: central_va

You’re playing games with what you wrote the first time.

You claimed that 90% of all the Mfg jobs that were shipped overseas were nonunion, and that is false.

A big chunk of those jobs were union, that is why so few Mfg jobs are union today. Those that didn’t go overseas went to Mexico or RTW states down south.

Unions are/were a cancer on the US economy.


133 posted on 01/24/2014 10:47:07 AM PST by Beagle8U (Unions are Affirmative Action for Slackers! .)
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To: GeronL

If the government is involved, of course not. However, if you pay someone $30 to plow your driveway, then yes.


134 posted on 01/24/2014 10:47:29 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Age of Reason
"Please explain . . . if you can."

Its already begun; database management, data mining, ecommerce matching buyers/sellers directly, world wide telecommunications, e publishing, etc. Hell, look at the internet. I, myself sell books all over the world from tiny little Taylorstown, PA.

3D printing could change great swathes of the market place.

How many people are employed in these industries today versus even 5 years ago? In another five years what will those numbers be

Look, I grew up in Pittsburgh in the bad old days when we were an industrial power house, and I have to tell you I don't miss that at all.

As w/ everything there's an up and a down, but really the new economy holds far greater potential for benefits than turning back the clock to assembly line/factory jobs.

135 posted on 01/24/2014 11:04:35 AM PST by Pietro
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To: Mad Dawgg
"Do you believe that placing tariffs on all imports will have no affect on the price of goods? "

The price of goods would increase but the price of government for the unemployed would do down. Pay me now or pay me later. No tariffs = lower product costs but labor costs are offloaded to the government which raises taxes. I go for tariffs.

136 posted on 01/24/2014 11:07:23 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: central_va; Mad Dawgg
If you look at the BLS stats for manufacturing, Labor is still 30% of the cost of manufacturing for those industries that are still in the U.S. Of course, I expect the highest labor industries have long since been off-shored. And there have probably been a lot of high labor components off-shored as well.

I would come at Central_va's calculation of a few cents on the dollar a different way. If you raise tariffs by 10%, and you know imports are equivalent to 16% of our GNP, that's an average price increase of 1.6%. That puts an effective cap on the effect of the tariff.

Effectively the tariff will re-shore production of highly automated processes and products with lower labor components first. High labor products will continue to be off-shored.

And I'm not sure a 10% increase will be enough. A lot of damage has been done. I'd recommend raising the tariff 2.5% a quarter until full employment has been reached and using the proceeds to offset taxes on Americans.

137 posted on 01/24/2014 11:11:31 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: ex-snook
The price of goods would increase but the price of government for the unemployed would do down. Pay me now or pay me later.

Most effective argument for an increase in the minimum wage that I've seen, yet (on FR).

138 posted on 01/24/2014 11:14:50 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: central_va
"Export Dollars + import poverty = Free Trade"

Reminds me of a song...
♪ Nothing from nothing leaves nothing ♫

139 posted on 01/24/2014 11:15:24 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: ex-snook
"The price of goods would increase...

yes EGGSACTLY Batman and waaaay more than your tariff. See you conveniently forgot all the compliance costs for a company to setup manufacturing in the USA.

140 posted on 01/24/2014 11:17:08 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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