Posted on 06/10/2013 7:31:41 AM PDT by maggief
“Snowden’s whistle blowing did not jeopardize lives and missions, “
Really? You can say that with any confidence whatsoever? At best it is a series of trade-offs.
Bolton is a neo-conservative ideologue. He’s a knee-jerk neo-conservative, meaning he doesn’t use reason to make his own political conclusions. He just listens to Karl Rove and follows his lead. Freepers are smarter than the neo-cons. We look at the NSA scandal as another opportunity to blast Obama, while Neo-cons become Obama’s drone defenders. Bolton gives us another reason to recognize the dangers of the neo-conservative movement.
The phone records that are being continuously collected along with other data accessible to the NSA would certainly allow that.
But Snowden went further. He used the word "Wiretap". Here is the quote:
"I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you, or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President if I had a personal email."
That is distinctly different capability. What you describe is "Data Mining". No doubt about that. But Snowden needs to define and, IMHO, limit the meaning that he attaches to the use of the word "Wiretap". Does anyone actually believe that Snowden could wiretap the President of the United States based on an Obama E-Mail address. I don't.
...and you as well.
“He took an oath to keep the secrets that were shared with him so he could do his job.”
Adolph Hitler had his military henchmen take an oath to him also, a personal oath no less, not to the country, but to him personally. I guess none of those men who took an oath to Hitler should ever have banded together in an attempt to assassinate Hitler, right Mr. Bolton? After all, there was that oath. When inside any organization and you realize that the organization is corrupt and evil, you have a higher moral authority you must answer to, both your conscience based on right and wrong, and your God.
Then you become a whistle blower. It wasn’t like Mr. Snowden was blowing an arbitrary whistle over nothing of importance. Oh no, data mining the whole U.S. population and storing the information for future use by God knows who, is of minor importance, right? Right, Mr. Bolton? And with a political regime currently running the country that has no qualms inserting themselves into people’s private lives to destroy them politically with audits, withholding grants, personal smearing, etc. Wake up, Mr. Bolton, you are very wrong on this particular subject.
yeah. so were sam adams, paul revere and patrick henry in the eyes of the crown. last time i checked, mr. bolton, your first oath as a citizen is to uphold the Constitution, which trumps the “law” of the republican establishment.
>>Meanwhile, the American populace’s digital data is being stored en masse for future use.<<
And, as the IRS scandal has amply demonstrated, it will be put to future use.
So many idiots, on hearing of this sort of surveillance, say something like, “Hey, if you’re not doing anything wrong, what have you got to worry about?”
Well, the groups harassed by the IRS were not doing anything wrong. How hard is it to connect these dots? I don’t call people idiots routinely, but the people with their heads in the sand over surveillance are exactly that, idiots, blooming idiots.
Unfortunately, they can also vote, and did.
I wonder if we even need a NSA? We are Americans and can deal with terror without a snooping agency
I completely agree with you. I think it’s the pervasiveness of this that is shocking, not the fact that it’s being done. I don’t trust this government to do the right thing at all, especially after the IRS scandal. But then the Founder’s didn’t really trust government either, did they? If we the people don’t rise up and take action, then we are also accountable.
What if Organizing for America has a backdoor access to the NSA files? IRS Data?
Trust the government? The government has become the enemy.
I guess there comes a time when the curtain gets lifted on the pretend conservatives’ act, just ask Chief Justice Roberts. Honestly, I don’t think you raise to certain positions of power without being willing to go along with the plan to bring the US down. Any legit heated debate is over who gets to shove their snouts the deepest into the trough.
If they were seriously trying to stop terrorism and were going after potential terrorists only, that would be one thing, but Obama has declared the war on terror over. I simply don't trust him. There is still a lot that is obscure on this latest story but the simplest explanation is that Obama wants to turn the US into a Communist-style state where the government spies on its citizens to control them, like East Germany or Cuba.
>>What if Organizing for America has a backdoor access to the NSA files? IRS Data?<<
“If”? Seriously?
“This guy thinks he has a higher morality, that he can see clearer than other 299-million 999-thousand 999 of us...”
Thanks for speaking up for ALL of the rest of America, Mr. Bolton. Bolton is a typical elected (in his case, appointed by an elected) official. To them, being “hired” by the voter, means they possess some brilliant, superior moral clarity than the rest of us. Such hubris!
The more we learn about this issue, Mr. B., the more we realize that our elected leaders have “lost the common touch,” and are making decisions that are contrary to our Constitution.
Yes I have been getting a little jaded on Bolton of late myself. He is full of it calling this guy a traitor.
“”I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you, or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President if I had a personal email.”
Personally I don’t believe he could do this. But he claims he could and, if so, this is definitely new news. But if, in fact, he couldn’t then I think it puts much of what he has told us in doubt.
*********
It’s the way the Internet works. If you have access to the servers, you can grab the packets. If you can access enough servers you can guarantee you get all of someone’s traffic, as the only difference is what server it is traversing when. Whether you can decrypt anything secured is another matter, but I’d expect NSA has the horsepower for that.
By the way, are you unfamiliar with the Internet “museum” that flashes (or did) thousands of e-mails every minute on displays?
As far as Snowden committing treason goes, treason is a very hard charge to prove. Not because treasonous acts aren't committed, but because it requires two eye witnesses to prove. it is written that way in the Constitution. There are plenty of other criminal charges that can be filed against him based upon other types of evidence.
I find it humorous that Obama was undone on this one by one of his disheartened supporters.
If he tried to stay anonymous, his ass would be on a rendition plane the same day.
The only way guys like him can stay alive is by staying as public as possible.
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