Dave Grossman: First-Person Shooter Videogames Should be Banned

January 4 | Katechon

[Norm Lenhart]

“my islamic militias”

I REALLY hope that was a typo...

[Katechon]

“I mean you want to ban an object because it may make people think about killing. I’ve already actually done killing and could care less about your stupid video games. What would you have in store for me with your knee jerk reactions? “

It’s not about THINKING about killing. Calm down and re-read the head-thread: it’s about BEHAVIORAL CONDITIONNING:

— STIMULUS: ANSWER.

[JRandomFreeper]

there are JUST wars (such as the Crusades)

The Crusades were about money and getting the thugs out of Europe.

Where did you learn history?

/johnny

[Katechon]

Listen, this is a place to discuss Grossman’s thesis. I’m sorry you feel threatened by it.

And no, Grossman ain’t saying that Stalin, Hitler, Mao or Pot used video-games to train their killers, okay?

[Repeat Offender]

Yes, as the old rabbis are saying, Cain was the ‘son of wrath,’; they think he’s the son of satan, a precursor to Masteman

Ignoring that nonsense since Cain was Adam and Eve's firstborn son....and Genesis makes no reference or inference to him being the son of satan......

You still haven't answered the question.

You want to ban an object without substantial proof it WILL cause someone to kill someone else.

It’s about training kids to become (potential) killers without any discipline.

In your previous post "potential" wasn't in it. The word you chose was "FACT." As in "WILL" cause.

I'm stating in 100% truthfulness and honesty I have killed people.....without the assistance of a video game. Where do I fit into your equation?

Who gets to be though police and determine what should or shouldn't be banned? Are True Crime and Murder Mysteries next? Or killers like me? Where does it end and who holds this power?

[JRandomFreeper]

He says those training is used my islamic militias and gang members, among many other people.

There are verified accounts of islamists and gang members getting REAL training from the REAL US military.

Want to ban that, too?

You can't stop people from passing information or training. Ever.

All you can do when you try is to grind the good people into the earth, so their blood and bones can feed another generation of thugs.

/johnny

[Katechon]

Grossman is a conservative and so am I. I am not the enemy.

[Repeat Offender]

Yes, as the old rabbis are saying, Cain was the ‘son of wrath,’; they think he’s the son of satan, a precursor to Masteman

Ignoring that nonsense since Cain was Adam and Eve's firstborn son....and Genesis makes no reference or inference to him being the son of satan......

You still haven't answered the question.

You want to ban an object without substantial proof it WILL cause someone to kill someone else.

It’s about training kids to become (potential) killers without any discipline.

In your previous post "potential" wasn't in it. The word you chose was "FACT." As in "WILL" cause.

I'm stating in 100% truthfulness and honesty I have killed people.....without the assistance of a video game. Where do I fit into your equation? If something like a First Person Shooter GAME will "make" someone kill, wouldn't First Person Shooting REALITY make them all the more worse?

Who gets to be thought police and determine what should or shouldn't be banned? Are True Crime and Murder Mysteries next? Or killers like me? Where does it end and who holds this power?

[Norm Lenhart]

You both fail. No conservative advocates banning anything based on no evidence. No conservative dodges questions and plays the victim. No conservative bases a theory on whole cloth.

But you call yourself whatever you like.

[TADSLOS]

For all the loot those bastards took, they never got a single video game.

Your theory to ban video games is bad science.

Yep. I'm pretty sure the nips weren't all jazzed up from playing Bushido Warrior Spec Ops before going in to rape Nanking either. Maybe some wicked sake made 'em go whack, but was more likely all that racist crap Tojo was pushin'. This whole "first person shooter video game creates mass killers" argument is just that. Junk science, like global warming. Made from whole cloth for the low information , believe anything sheeple crowd to gulp down as an easy answer.

[Katechon]

The problem is not about killing; killing is perfectly fined in many situations (war, self-defense, etc).

The critics of Grossman is that FPS videogames provide a training without disciplines. And worst: it associates killing with pleasure and reward, without the context of an actual war or self-defense.

[tang-soo]

U remember Dr, Grossman's interview with G. Gordon Liddy probably 10 years ago. There was a spring during which there was an outbreak of shootings by high school kids, and the interview was in response.

Grossman was (maybe still is) a professor at West Point, and I believe a graduate. He taught and researches issues dealing with combat situations - ie the issues of taking life. He knows his stuff. I remember he commented that the h.s. shooter in Kentucky had a head shot ratio about 10 times that of an FBI sharpshooter - the kid was on automatic and highly trained via the realistic game he had become addicted to.

I also remember him stating that many of the top programmers and designers were former military and people who had the same background as himself - ie they studied how the mind works, the frequencies, the flashes, the sounds are not based upon art or coolness - rather, they are based upon techniques used to create additive feedback.

. As a longterm FReeper, I understand the attitude toward those who want to ban everything and the nanny state. However, I think Grossman is spot on in this regard. Not sure what the solution is as I think a ban is unrealistic. Hopefully, his work will have an impact on parents so they become more aware.

[Katechon]

lol, yeah, it was a typo: by* islamic militias.

[JRandomFreeper]

Not with their own species. They are being gentle with each others in their mating and territorial rituals, competitions.

Your contention is that animals don't want to kill each other naturally. You said that. It is demonstrably false.

Grossman's theory is flatulance, until proved by facts.

Facts tend to disprove Grossman's theory.

I am not threatened by it, because I recognize nature, and don't try to sugar-coat it.

Grossman is discredited until he draws a statistical link between video games and murders. And even if he does, you can't get around the 1st Amendment.

You still didn't define exactly what a 'massacre' is.

/johnny

[Katechon]

The Crusades were first and foremost about the armies of allah — they were invading Europe and desecrating Jerusalem, the holiest place on earth.

[Katechon]

Many, many rabbis made and are making the case that Cain was fathered by satan. "Cain was also viewed as a type of utter perverseness, an offspring of Satan (Pirḳe R. El. xxi.), "a son of wrath" (Apoc. Mosis, 3), a lawless rebel who said, "There is neither a divine judgment nor a judge" (Midr. Leḳaḥ Ṭob and Targ. Yer. to Gen. iv. 8), whose words of repentance were insincere (Sanh. 101b; Tan.), whose fleeing from God was a denial of His omnipresence (Gen. R. xxii.), and whose punishment was of an extraordinary character:" http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3904-cain

[Katechon]

Grossman said we should not labeled those mass-murders (defined as multiple homicides) as “shootings,” but rather as “massacres.”

One can shoot for sport and training and hunting wihout committing multiple homicide. Don’t let ‘them’ usurp the term ‘shooting,’ he said.

[Eaker]

Grossman is a conservative and so am I. I am not the enemy.

You have been shredded on this thread and haven't come close to defending Grossman's ridiculous theory.

I'd like to see you answer the Chicago / Houston conundrum.

[Norm Lenhart]

I assumed so. But considering what you are advocating, One cannot be entirely sure.

Pacifist Americans would indeed be easy targets for the armies of pig sodomy, would they not?

I would assume a bunch of jihadists led by devotion to the spawn of pigs and goats would LOVE a disarmed America too scared to even kill virtually.

[JRandomFreeper]

Study some history.

The crusades were about politics, money, and getting the thugs out of Europe (Christian thugs).

I'd be fine with dropping an asteroid on Mecca today, but the crusades? Nah... that was not iustum bellum.

Hell they weren't even smart wars.

Clusters, we call them today.

/johnny