CAIR-Michigan Goes After the U.S. Constitution

radicalislam.org ^ | 13DEC12 | Clare M. Lopez

[Carry_Okie]

Is this the same angel that inspired mohammad with revelations?

One would think. Yet one cannot know. If one totally dispenses with a Judeo-Christian perspective in the study of these verses, one would note that Hagar's encounter is the first time humankind NAMES G_d. Now this is far more critical matter than one might realize until one studies Genesis 1 in Hebrew. Naming is a very powerful function. G_d doesn't name the animals; he left that to Adam. He doesn't name man until he is about to destroy him in Genesis 6. Naming is an act of discernment, in which one identifies the key attribute of a person's identity and they get to live that out for the rest of their lives. Those impenetrable genealogies are far more interesting than one might suspect (I think they form mnemonics for the rest of the story).

If Hagar actually "names" G_d, then we're in for far more of a challenge as regards Islam than we realize. Effectively, it would mean that G_d created for us an enemy He knew we could not defeat without Him. Note that the first time He offers his name to humankind is to Moshe, and it is obviously the same as Hagar gave Him.

If you go back to the Hagar story and play with the Hebrew roots in Gen. 16:12 , again dispassionately, you will note that in the interlinear it says, "hand of him - in all - and hand of - all - in him - and on - faces of - all of - brothers of him - he shall tabernacle (to dwell in a family tent)." Note that "hand" is yada, the same root for conceiving in procreation. One could read that this means Ishmael will be found in among tribe worldwide, and his FEATURES (what faces actually means) will be found on the face of every man, possibly because of rape. He is after all, like the wild ass. African wild asses are unlike many herd animals in that they often stray from the herd. There was a progenitor in character in the genealogy of Cain (Irad), whose name either refers to a wild ass or means "hides from the light," possibly related to when Adam hid from G_d, but one also notes that African asses seek the shade from the noon day sun.

Deep, isn't it? It helps in understanding all of this to apply the perspective of the nomadic herdsmen who wrote the Torah. Remember, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and David were all men of the land.

Now, as to the prophecy of Ishmael, look at the Islamic slave trade in women. Look at their propensity to infest every nation. G_d's prophecy in His promise to Hagar is coming true before our eyes. Yet we don't see it because we study what we think about the Word more than the words themselves. I think we've missed a lot, as you'll find out soon enough when I finally post my translation and interpretation of Genesis 1-8. Don't hold your breath. Cain & Abel took two years to untangle.

[Taggart_D]

Thanks for the scripture4all.org reference. Interesting site. I still don’t see how you can conclude that Hagar was not calling on the name of the LORD. Though I believe Islam’s root is Satan and many instances in Islam’s history that document many those who thought he was demon possessed.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/demons.htm

[Carry_Okie]

See the post immediately above.

I still don’t see how you can conclude that Hagar was not calling on the name of the LORD.

You'd need a really deep study on the meaning of "naming" in Genesis 1-6 to get what I am driving at.

[Boogieman]

Or, there is the alternative explanation that the “Angel of the Lord” in the OT was just a form that Christ appeared in before his earthly incarnation, hence there was no need for correction.

[Boogieman]

“Where did you find the origin of the name of God she uses?”

First, put down the NIV and grab the good old KJV. Then get out your Strong’s Concordance, or if you don’t have one, go to one of the online versions. Then, you can cross-reference any word in the KJV to find out what Hebrew or Greek word it was translated from, along with the alternative translations, root words, other verses the word occurs in, etc.

[Carry_Okie]

Or, there is the alternative explanation that the “Angel of the Lord” in the OT was just a form that Christ appeared in before his earthly incarnation, hence there was no need for correction.

That's a bit of a stretch for my taste. Even Christ referred to Adonai as "the Father." There is speculation also that Christ appeared to Avram as one of the three visitors. It's an interesting idea, but I prefer to leave that kind of thing alone. Christ was born human. His soul preexisted his form, but that doesn't mean His persona did.

[itsahoot]

Friends of Barack.

Pretty chummy with the Bush's as well, not to mention Clinton or the peanut farmer.

I think Oklahoma recently passed a bill that prohibited the use of Sharia in any state court and the Courts struck it down.

[existentially_kuffer]

Figures! Muslims are not bound by man-made laws but allah’s. The koranic answer lies in surah 5, ayat 51. For muslims only islam trumps the Constitution.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks cripplecreek. Kickin’ ass, takin’ names.

[little jeremiah]

Placemark.

If you decide to make a “Truth of Islam” placemark, please add me.

[Boogieman]

“Christ was born human. His soul preexisted his form, but that doesn’t mean His persona did.”

I’m not sure how one could exist without the other. You can’t have a persona without a soul, and if you have a soul, I’m pretty sure you have a persona.