Posted on 11/14/2012 3:52:19 PM PST by greyfoxx39
It gets a great deal of emphasis, yet at the same time...Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, Lutheranism...et al.
What is the significance?
Ansel12...you should feel honored to have actually gotten a ping from Dewey. Dewey only averages about 5-6 pings per month...
ALL: So...Dewey confesses here that to the Mormon, "salvation" is a self-achievement thing!
Did you know that Mormonism teaches the false "gospel" of self-transformation -- of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps to become a god? (And Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball was one of its key proponents)
Kimball on these very topics:
1969: "Being a god in embryo with the seeds of godhood neatly tucked away in him, and with the power to become a god eventually, man need not despair...he must...transform himself..." (Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 173-174)
A couple he was advising in Kimball's office "did not understand that forgiveness is not a thing of days or months or even years but is a matter of intensity of feeling and transformation of self...This couple seemed to have no conception of satisfying the Lord, of paying the total penalties and obtaining a release..." (Ibid, p. 156)
To Kimball, you had to "pay the total penalties" for your sin -- vs. that being a role occupied by the true Jesus Christ.
September, 1974: Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. Source: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6057 (Spencer W. Kimball speech entitled Be Ye Therefore Perfect 9/17/74 devotional address @ BYU)
1975: Man is created in the image of God. He is a god in embryo. He has the seeds of godhood within him, and he can, if he is normal, pick himself up by his bootstraps and literally move himself from where he is to where he shows he should be." Source: http://emp.byui.edu/marrottr/LovevsLust.pdf, "Love vs. Lust," Spencer W. Kimball, Provo: BYU Publications, 1975
November 1977: Self-mastery, then, is the key, and every person should study his own life, his own desires and wants and cravings, and bring them under control. Man can transform himself and he must. Man has in himself the seeds of godhood, which can germinate and grow and develop. As the acorn becomes the oak, the mortal man becomes a god. It is within his power to lift himself by his very bootstraps from the plane on which he finds himself to the plane on which he should be. It may be a long, hard lift with many obstacles, but it is a real possibility. To be perfect, one can turn to many areas as a starting place....As we have stated before, the way to perfection seems to be a changing of one’s life—to substitute the good for the evil in every case. Source: By President Spencer W. Kimball An address given to students of Weber State College, Ogden, Utah on 4 November 1977 http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=244ed0640b96b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD
July, 1978 Ensign Magazine: Lds church officially endorses Kimball Weber State College comments by publishing them in their official magazine
This quote also becomes part of Chapter 19 of what Lds officially teach college students in their Institute curricula: See http://institute.lds.org/manuals/doctrines-of-the-gospel-student-manual/doc-gosp-11-20-19.asp
The expressed purpose of the poster appears to be to push the notion that there is a mormon conspiracy, led by Romney, to take over America and more specifically Christian America. Highly doubtful but even if so, its over now.
As for the "not talk[ing] about other religions in [Mormon} church," Yeah, we know
--I mean, the typical Lds philosophy we hear:
"Speak softly and carry a big Pearl of Great Price stick" (at times, it's also a big Book of Mormon stick)...
You see a LOT of Mormons like to let their $tithe do the "stickwork"...
...And, fyi, both the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon (specifically 1 Nephi in the BoM) -- presents Christians "whoredom"
(And these verses are hardly tucked away in some "Journal of Discourses" somewhere)
These are Mormon "scriptures" in which Mormons like Dewey are helping, financially, to replicate/spawn by the millions in hundreds of languages...all as we sleep. And what? Do you think these things print themselves? Or could it be that the Mormon wallet of Dewey & other grassroots Mormons wind up paying for the the worldwide slander of Christians in those published pages?
Oh, & for an even more specific definition of a 'big Pearl of Great Price stick' :
"You Christian sects are 100% wrong;
100% apostates;
100% creedally putrid;
100% corrupt as believers...
...Signed: Cordially, your "nice" Mormon neighbor
P.S. "Of course, we'll be polite & use Lds missionary doorstep language like 'universal apostasy' instead of pointing our fingers right @ you..."
"...and we'll fund the outer darkness out of hundreds of different Pearl of Great Price translations which mention ALL of the above...so our 'big stick' will seem once-removed..."
"...But make no mistake about it, we've sent out literally over 1 million Lds missionaries who've carried this 'Big Stick' around the world!!!"
#1...You don't understand the Mormon hierarchy very well, do you?
Allow me to comment upon that:
First of all, you wouldn't need any kind of current active "conspiracy" among Lds leaders for some problematic gods-cratic edicts to eventually come down from "on high" in Salt Lake City.
All it would take is a "sudden notion" to hit an 84-yo geezer who might become THE "prophet" in 2015 [you see, once Lds hierarchists reach a certain level, the calendar takes over & it's the "oldest" who automatically assumes the "prophet" post when the previous "prophet" dies]...
Anyway, as I was saying, it wouldn't even take a long, drawn-out Mormon "design"...It could be some sudden notion that comes upon the current or next-current Lds "prophet" as he reads some older "take over the earth" quote from a deceased Lds leader...
#2, it wouldn't even need a "willing co-conspirator in the White House." All it would take is a Mormon pawn operating at the hands of his puppeteer. Romney wouldn't have even needed to be an "active" leader in such plans.
Let me reiterate that it wouldn't have mattered what Romney would have -- or not -- initiated from the White House of his own accord. Romney swore a vow to consecrate ALL of his resources to "Zion" (the Mormon church). Given the track record, passion, and inclination for political overreach by Mormon general authorities, who knows if a Mormon "prophet" would have entered as a "martinet" of sorts and provide some rigid orders -- pulling POTUS strings to honor his vow-swearing of resources to "Zion" (the Mormon church)?
Orson Hyde, President of the Lds Quorum of the 12 Apostles for 28 years (1847-1875), summed it up when he said: “What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation...God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 53)
Hence, in light of...
...Mormon "scriptures" like D&C 103:7, where Lds "saints" are promised to "possess...the earth...forever and ever"...
...and above statements like Lds "apostle" Orson Hyde claiming "Mormonism will rule every nation"...
...and Lds "apostle-turned-'prophet'" John Taylor saying that Mormons would become "political...saviors"
...who are you to come out and claim these overreach designs haven't been part of the Mormon leader fabric????
Wow, the hatred of Mormons here is unbelievable. No wonder “conservatives” can’t win. Grow up people.
Try reading the Constitution again.
“You will see the constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread.... A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America.... [T]he land will be left without a Supreme Government,... [Mormonism] will have gathered strength, sending out Elders to gather the honest in heart... to stand by the Constitution of the United States.... In these days... God will set up a Kingdom, never to be thrown down.... [T]he whole of America will be made the Zion of God.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., May 6, 1843, in Roberts, Journal of John J. Roberts, online at http://www.helpingmormons.org/white_horse.htm
“I shall take it as a witness that God designs to cut the thread between us and the world, when an army undertakes to make their appearance in this Territory to chastise me or to destroy my life from the earth…. I shall take a hostile movement by our enemies as evidence that it is time for the thread to be cut.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, pp. 256-257, September 20, 1857
“Will the Constitution be destroyed? No: it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, ‘The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ It will be so.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 15, July 4, 1854
“[W]hen the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon’ Elders to save it from utter destruction.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 182, February 18, 1855
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204
“The present Constitution, with a few alterations of a trifling nature, is just as good as we want; and if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 324
“I expect to see the day when the Elders of Israel will protect and sustain civil and religious liberty and every Constitutional right bequeathed to us by our fathers, and spread these rights abroad in connection with the Gospel for the salvation of all nations. I shall see this whether I live or die.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 11, p. 262
“The Almighty has established this kingdom with order and laws and every thing pertaining thereto… [so] that when the nations shall be convulsed, we may stand forth as saviours… and finally redeem a ruined world, not only in a religious but in a political point of view.”
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 9, p. 342, April 13, 1862
“What the world calls ‘Mormonism’ will rule every nation.... God has decreed it, and his own right arm will accomplish it. This will make the heathen rage.”
- Apostle Orson Hyde, n.d., Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 53
“Saviors of the Nation.—To escape the judgments hanging over the wicked, and find a place where they might worship God unmolested, the Latter-day Saints fled to the Rocky Mountains. Here, and here only, during the temporary isolation sought and found by them in the chambers of “the everlasting hills,” could they hope to be let alone long enough to become strong enough to accomplish their greater destiny. For in that enforced exodus and the rounding of this mountain-girt empire there was more than the surface facts reveal. If tradition can be relied upon, Joseph Smith prophesied that the Elders of Israel would save this Nation in the hour of its extremest peril. At a time when anarchy would threaten the life of the Government, and the Constitution be hanging as by a thread, the maligned and misunderstood “Mormons”—always patriotic, and necessarily so from the very genius of their religion—would stand firm upon Freedom’s rocky ramparts, and as champions of law and order, liberty and justice, call to their aid in the same grand cause kindred [p.61] spirits from every part of the nation and from every corner of the world.
All this preparatory to a mighty movement that would sweep every form of evil from off the face of the land, and build the Zion of God upon the spot consecrated for its erection. This traditional utterance of their martyred Seer is deeply imbedded in the heart and hope of the ‘Mormon’ people.”
- Apostle Orson F. Whitney, Saturday Night Thoughts, pp. 60-61
“... [Someday] there would be no stable government outside of the Latter-day Saints; and that it is their destiny as a people, to uphold constitutional government upon this land.”
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, v. 25, p. 123, April 3, 1881
“Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country, and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints, above all other people in the world, would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty. We cannot brook the thought of it being torn into shreds, or destroyed, or trampled under foot and ignored by men. We cannot tolerate the sentiment, at one time expressed, by a man high in authority in the nation. He said: “The constitution be damned; the popular sentiment of the people is the constitution!” That is the sentiment of anarchism, and has spread to a certain extent, and is spreading over “the land of liberty and the home of the brave.” We do not tolerate it. Latter-day Saints cannot tolerate such a spirit as this. It is anarchy. It means destruction. It is the spirit of mobocracy, and the Lord knows we have suffered enough from mobocracy, and we do not want any more of it. Our people from Mexico are suffering from the effects of that same spirit. We do not want any more of it, and we cannot afford to yield to that spirit or contribute to it in the least degree. We should stand with a front like flint against every spirit or species of contempt or disrespect for the constitution of our country and the constitutional laws of our land.”
- Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, p. 403
“Now, these are the commandments of God, the principles contained in these commandments of the great Eternal are the principles that underly the Constitution of our country and all just laws. Joseph Smith, the prophet, was inspired to affirm and ratify this truth, and he further predicted that the time would come, when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty.”
- Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11
“My brethren and sisters, I hope that we will go home from this conference determined as a great body of people, to stand for law, order, righteousness, justice and peace on earth and good will among all men. I believe as the Prophet Joseph has written, that the day would come when there would be so much of disorder, of secret combinations taking the law into their own hands, tramping upon Constitutional rights and the liberties of the people, that the Constitution would hang as by a thread. Yes, but it will still hang, and there will be enough of good people, many who may not belong to our Church at all, people who have respect for law and for order, and for Constitutional rights, who will rally around with us and save the Constitution. I have never read that that thread would be cut. It will hang; the Constitution will abide and this civilization, that the Lord has caused to be built up, will stand fortified through the power of God, by putting from our hearts all that is evil, or that is wrong in the sight of God, by our living as we should live, acceptable to him.”
- Apostle Charles W. Nibley, Conference Report, October 1922, p. 40
“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread. But, thank the Lord, the thread did not break. He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense. The Book of Mormon prophecies concerning the future of America have been referred to in our hearing during this conference, wherein it is stated that this nation, though it becomes a mighty nation, still it can stand in security here only as it serves the God of this land. That conception was in the hearts of the men who founded America.”
- Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
“I believe that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to support the Constitution of the United States. The Prophet Joseph Smith is alleged to have said—and I believe he did say it—that the day would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread. But he saw that the thread did not break, thank the Lord, and that the Latter-day Saints would become a balance of power, with others, to preserve that Constitution. If there is—and there is one part of the Constitution hanging as by a thread today—where do the Latter-day Saints belong? Their place is to rally to the support of that Constitution, and maintain it and defend it and support it by their lives and by their vote. Let us not disappoint God nor his prophet. Our place is fixed.”
- Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, April 1933, p. 127
“The Prophet Joseph told us that he saw the day when even the Constitution of the United States would be torn and hang as by a thread.... He saw the day when this people would be a balance of power to come to its defense.”
- Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, Conference Report, October 1928, p. 108
“You and I have heard all our lives that the time may come when the Constitution may hang by a thread. I do not know whether it is a thread, or a small rope by which it now hangs, but I do know that whether it shall live or die is now in the balance.”
- Apostle J. Reuben Clark, Conference Report, October 1942, p. 58
“How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it. . . . if it is sustained on this land of Joseph, it will be done by us and our posterity.”
- Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171
“[Joseph Smith] said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass. When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the ‘Mormon Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forth and do it.”
- Apostle Mark E. Peterson, Conference Report, April 1946, p. 171
“Joseph Smith... [said] the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction. Why the elders of this Church?... ‘We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation.”
- Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18
“But beyond all that, the Latter-day Saints have a responsibility, that may be better understood when we recall the prophecy of Joseph Smith who declared that ‘the time would come when ( the destiny and ) the Constitution of these United States would hang as it were by a thread, and that this people, the sons of Zion, would rise up and save it from threatened destruction.’ (J. of D., Vol. 7:15)
I want to ask you to consider the meaning of that prophecy, in the light of the declaration of the prophets of the Book of Mormon times, who declared that this land was a choice land above all other lands, and would be free from bondage and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of this land, even our Savior, Jesus Christ. (Ether 2:12)”
- Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, April 1942, p. 87
“It was Joseph Smith who has been quoted as having said that the time would come when the Constitution would hang as by a thread and at that time when it was thus in jeopardy, the elders of this Church would step forth and save it from destruction.
Why the elders of this Church? Would it be sacrilegious to paraphrase the words of the Apostle Peter, and say that the Constitution of the United States could be saved by the elders of this Church because this Church and this Church alone has the words of eternal life? We alone know by revelation as to how the Constitution came into being, and we, alone, know by revelation the destiny of this nation. The preservation of ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ can be guaranteed upon no other basis than upon a sincere faith and testimony of the divinity of these teachings.”
- Prophet Harold B. Lee, Conference Report, October 1952, p. 18
“[Joseph Smith] said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true.... ‘Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.’”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
“CONSTITUTION TO HANG BY A THREAD. The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger.
Said Orson Hyde: I believe he said something like this—‘that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow’ and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it.”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 3, p. 326
“I must not take more time but to add this: The statement has been made that the Prophet said the time would come when this Constitution would hang as by a thread, and this is true. There has been some confusion, however, as to just what he said following this. I think that Elder Orson Hyde has given us a correct interpretation wherein he says that the Prophet said the Constitution would be in danger. Said Orson Hyde:
I believe he said something like this — that the time would come when the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he: ‘If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church.’ I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it. (Journal of Discourses, 6:152.)
Now I tell you it is time the people of the United States were waking up with the understanding that if they don’t save the Constitution from the dangers that threaten it, we will have a change of government.”
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, April 1950, p. 159
“Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’... [Then] the Elders of Israel [i.e., LDS leaders], widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, 1988, p. 619
[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“[Joseph Smith] foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents – the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“… the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction…. It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70
“The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113
“The Prophet Joseph Smith said the time would come when the Constitution would hang as it were by a thread. Modern-day prophets for the last thirty years have been warning us that we have been rapidly moving in that direction. Fortunately, the Prophet Joseph Smith saw the part the elders of Israel would play in this crisis. Will there be some of us who won’t care about saving the Constitution, others who will be blinded by the craftiness of men, and some who will knowingly be working to destroy it? He that has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God’s mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1963, p. 113
“Thank God for the Constitution. And may God bless the elders of Israel that when, as President John Taylor said, ‘the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of earth and proclaiming liberty.’”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, “Jesus Christ – Gifts and Expectations, New Era, May 1975, p. 19
“The Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time “this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction” (Journal of Discourses, 7:15). It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation, will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.
If the Gentiles on this land reject the word of God and conspire to overthrow liberty and the Constitution, their doom is fixed, and they “shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant” (1 Nephi 14:6; 3 Nephi 21:11, 14, 21; D&C 84:114-15, 117). (God, Family, Country, p. 345.)
As we spread abroad in this land, bearers of this priesthood, men and women with high ideals and standards, our influence will spread as we take positions of leadership in the community, in the state, in the nation, in the world. We will be able to sit in counsel with others and we will be able to influence others in paths of righteousness. We will help to save this nation, because this nation can only be preserved on the basis of righteous living.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pp. 618-619
“It is no wonder that the Prophet Joseph said—even though he knew he would suffer martyrdom in this land—‘The Constitution of the United States is a glorious standard; it is founded in the wisdom of God. It is a heavenly banner.’
Yet, according to his contemporaries, he foresaw the time when the destiny of the nation would be in danger and would hang as by a thread. Thank God he did not see the thread break. He also indicated the important part that this people should yet play in standing for the principles embodied in these sacred documents—the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, April 1948, p. 85
“Eleventh: In connection with attack on the United States, the Lord told the Prophet Joseph Smith there would be an attempt to overthrow the country by destroying the Constitution. Joseph Smith predicted that the time would come when the Constitution would hang, as it were, by a thread, and at that time ‘this people will step forth and save it from the threatened destruction.’ (Journal History, Brigham Young’s Speech, July 4, 1854.)
It is my conviction that the elders of Israel, widely spread over the nation will at that crucial time successfully rally the righteous of our country and provide the necessary balance of strength to save the institutions of constitutional government.”
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, October 1961, p. 70
“From time to time, accounts of various supposed visions, revelations, and prophecies are spread forth by and among the Latter-day Saints, who should know better than to believe or spread such false information. One of these false and deceptive documents that has cropped up again and again for over a century is the so-called White Horse Prophecy. This supposed prophecy purports to be a long and detailed account by the Prophet Joseph Smith concerning the wars, turmoils, and difficulties which should exist in the last days.
“It is a sad commentary on the spiritual insight of professing saints that they will generate intense interest in these supposed prophetic utterances and yet know little of and pay less attention to the volumes of true and sound prophetic writings which delineate authoritatively the course of latter-day world events. It is known by all informed gospel students that whenever revealed truth, new or old, is to be sent forth for the enlightenment of the saints and of the world, it will be announced officially and publicly by the First Presidency.
“Speaking, first of the White Horse Prophecy specifically, and then of all such false revelations in general, President Joseph F. Smith said: ‘The ridiculous story about the `red horse,’ and `the black horse,’ and `the white horse,’ and a lot of trash that has been circulated about, and printed, and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren, who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so-called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the Prophet in the manner in which they have put it forth. It is simply false; that is all there is to it.
Now, these stories of revelations that are being circulated around are of no consequence, except for rumor and silly talk by persons that have no authority. The fact of the matter is simply here and this. No man can enter into God’s rest unless he will absorb the truth insofar that all error, all falsehood, all misunderstanding and misstatements, he will be able to sift thoroughly and dissolve, and know that it is error and not truth. When you know God’s truth, when you enter into God’s rest, you will not be hunting after revelations from Tom, Dick, and Harry all over the world. You will not be following the will of the wisps of the vagaries of men and their own ideas. When you know the truth, you will abide in the truth, and the truth will make you free, and it is only the truth that will free you from the errors of men, and from the falsehood and misrepresentations of the evil one, who lies in wait to deceive and to mislead the people of God from the paths of righteousness and truth. (Conf. Rep., Oct. 1918, p. 58.)”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.835
“[T]he kingdom of God... is to be a political institution that shall hold sway over all the earth; to which all other governments will be subordinate and by which they will be dominated.”
- LDS Historian and Seventy B.H. Roberts, The Rise and Fall of Nauvoo, 1900, p. 180
“I would like to add this in conclusion. It is said that President Brigham Young, many years ago, made this statement:
When the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for Mormon elders to save it from utter destruction: and they will step forth and do it. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 2:182, Feb. 18, 1855.)
This is recorded in the Journal of Discourses and I presume it is accurate, but however it may be, is it not a possibility, that this Church, in its great leadership and in the power that will come to it in advocating the things that are divine and are right and true as for example the great welfare program, is not possible that when we as a nation shall have exhausted our resources—and we can well do that if we do not turn about—when we have we have reached that point is it not possible that to us will those who are not of us look for guidance and we will be held up as a people who are pointing an economic way that will mean for the economic and spiritual salvation and blessing of our people.”
- High Priest Clifford E. Young, Conference Report, April 1949, pp. 75-76
“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would “hang by a thread” and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, “When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men” (JD 21:8). To defend the principles of the Constitution under circumstances where the “iniquity,” or moral decay, of the people has torn it to shreds might well require wisdom at least equal to that of the men raised up to found it. In particular, it would require great insight into the relationship between freedom and virtue in a political embodiment of moral agency.”
- Encyclopedia of Mormonism, v. 1, p. 1992
“We shall build the Zion of the Lord in peace untill the servants of that Lord shall begin to lay the foundation of a great and high watch Tower and then shall they begin to say within themselves, what need hath my Lord of this tower seeing this is a time of peace &c. Then the Enemy shall come as a thief in the night and scatter the servants abroad. When the seed of these 12 Olive trees are scattered abroad they will wake up the Nations of the whole Earth. Even this Nation will be on the very verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the constitution is upon the brink of ruin this people will be the Staff up[on] which the Nation shall lean and they shall bear the constitution away from the very verge of destruction.”
- “The Historians Corner,” BYU Studies, v. 19, no. 3, pp. 391-392
“The History of the Church account is an amalgamation of the reports in the Joseph Smith Diary and the Nauvoo Neighbor. The report by Levi Richards is here published for the first time. A reminiscent account of this discourse by James Burgess contains the essential details found in the other three accounts published here, and adds that the “Constitution and Government would hang by a brittle thread.”
In the month of May 1843. Several miles east of Nauvoo. The Nauvoo Legion was on parade and review. At the close of which Joseph Smith made some remarks upon our condition as a people and upon our future prospects contrasting our present condition with our past trials and persecutions by the hands of our enemies. Also upon the constitution and government of the United States stating that the time would come when the Constitution and Government would hand by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the Latter day Saints will step forth and save it.
General Scott and part of his staff on the American Army was present on the occasion.
I James Burgess was present and testify to the above (James Burgess Notebook, Church Archives).”
- Ehat and Cook, Words of Joseph Smith, 6 May 1843 Note, p. 279
“Brigham Young and other preachers are constantly inculcating in the minds of the crowded audiences who sit beneath their teachings every Sabbath that the United States is of no consequence, that it lies in ruins, and that the prophecy of Joseph Smith is being fulfilled to the letter. According to the prophecy, the United States as a nation is to be destroyed. That the Gentiles, as they call all persons outside of their church, will continue to fight with each other until they perish and then the Saints are to step in and quietly enjoy the possession of the land and also what is left of the ruined cities and desolated places. And that Zion is to be built up, not only in the valleys and the mountains but the great center of their power and glory is to be in Missouri where the Saints under the lead of their prophet were expelled many years ago.”
- Steven Harding, Utah governor, in Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“In all the meetings that I have attended, not one word, not one prayer, has been uttered or offered up for the saving of our cause and for the restoration of peace, but on the contrary the God of the Saints has been implored to bring swift destruction on all nations, peoples, and institutions that stand in the way of the triumph of this people.”
- Steven Harding, Utah governor, in Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“[Brigham] taught followers that the governments of the earth were false and should be overthrown, that God had only delegated to the priesthood the right to set up a government. God would appoint a ruler, and all persons who otherwise pretended to have authority to govern were usurpers. Young was said to have asserted that although the Constitution of the United States was a revelation, it had fulfilled its purpose – the formation of a government so that the Mormon church could be organized. According to Young, slavery had nothing to do with the present disturbances, which were in consequence of the persecution the Saints had suffered at the hands of the American people.”
- Eugene E. Campbell, Establishing Zion: The Mormon Church in the American West, 1847-1869, 1988, p. 292
“Our government, the best government in the world, is crumbling to pieces. Those who have it in their hands are the ones who are destroying it. How long will it be before the words of the prophet Joseph will be fulfilled? He said if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all it must be done by this people. It will not be many years before these words come to pass.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 12, p. 204, April 8, 1868
“Joseph Smith... predicted that the time would come, ‘when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue.”
- Prophet Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1912, p. 11
“... if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may ‘hang by a thread’ it would be because of the immense powers given tot he President and his opportunity for their abuse. Let us... resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints.”
- Senator Wallace F. Bennett, Utah, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13
“I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.”
- Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU President (1951-1971), BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7,)
“LDS attachment to the Constitution has been further encouraged by an important oral tradition deriving from a statement attributed to Joseph Smith, according to which the Constitution would ‘hang by a thread’ and be rescued, if at all, only with the help of the Saints. Church President John Taylor seemed to go further when he prophesied, ‘When the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States the Elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth.;:
- Daniel H. Ludlow, ed., Selections from Encyclopedia of MormonismS, 1995, “The Church and Society,” p. 122
“[LDS TV weatherman Thom Spencer] at a Republican rally broke with tradition that a journalist should remain objective and spoke out at the rally because of a prophecy by Joseph Smith, who founded the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints more than 150 years ago. Smith predicted that the time would come ‘when the Constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and be ready to fall into other hands, but this people, the latter-day saints, will step forth and save it.’”
- “Weatherman’s Politics Cloud His Role on TV,” Seattle Times, November 24, 2000
“They tolerate everything that’s bad, and they’re intolerant of everything that’s good. Religious freedom is going to go down the drain, too. I’ve never seen it worse than this, where the Constitution literally is hanging by a thread.”
- Orrin Hatch, Republican Mormon Senator of Utah, “The Doug Wright Show,” (KSL) November 9, 1999
“The documents show that Joseph Smith did prophecy a number of times that the United States and the Constitution would be imperiled and that the elders would have a hand in saving them.”
- D. Michael Stewart, “I Have A Question,” Ensign, June 1976, p. 64
“... the prophet Joseph Smith did make the marvelous prediction that it is the destiny of the Latter-day Saints to some day save the Constitution of the United States.”
- Preston Nibley, LDS church historian, Deseret News, December 15, 1948; quoted in The White Horse Prophecy, 1993, p. 65
“It’s a very common belief [among Mormons] that the Constitution will hang by a thread and the Church will save it.”
- Jan Shipps, quoted in Warchol and Heilprin, “Mormon Myth Stalks Hatch to Presidential Race,” Salt Lake Tribune, Junly 15, 1999
“We have much in our national system that militates against the rise of a dictator. The Bill of Rights with its philosophy of individual rights against oppression is still a curb on a power-hungry President. But if I were to guess as to how the Constitution may “hang by a thread” it would be because of the immense powers given to the President and his opportunity for their abuse.
Let us delve once again into the great principles of the Constitution and resolve that we will do all in our power to preserve these principles for our posterity. This is our duty as citizens of the United States, and pre-eminently our duty as Latter-day Saints, because without the Constitution this glorious restoration would not have taken place in this land and might not have taken place at this point in history.”
- Senator Wallace F. Bennett, BYU Speeches, February 15, 1961, p. 13
“Our government is an organization which was to, and since has, enacted, judged and enforced law through and by legislative, judicial and executive departments. It is encumbent on the American people to steadfastly maintain the historic balance of power by the three branches of government if our political system is to be preserved. If this is not done then the thread by which it has been predicted the Constitution will hang will be clipped and our form of government will disappear. We, the American people, must not become so internationally minded as to sell our birthright for a spurious promise of world peace. The most nationally-minded people are our enemies. We must remain faithful to our pledge, regardless of charges of chauvinism, to preserve America ‘with our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.’”
- Judge Joseph E. Nelson, BYU Speeches, April 24, 1963, p. 3
“I am concerned that in our worship of materialism in our country we now have an indebtedness of over $5,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. (This includes obligations for goods already delivered and services already rendered to the government, although payable in the future.) I am concerned that we have in effect abandoned the Monroe Doctrine as our safeguard for ultimate protection of this hemisphere, and that as a result we are threatened with Communism not only in Cuba but in South America and now in Africa as well. If the Constitution is to hang by a thread in this country, I want to be one to help to preserve it.”
- Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, February 18, 1964, p. 9
“In my commencement address I gave the language and sources of the prophetic utterance made by the Prophet Joseph that the Constitution of the United States would hang by a single thread, but be saved by the elders of Israel. I hope you will read those sources so you will be well-informed as to this prophecy and be prepared to do your part in its fulfillment.”
- Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 7
“Now what has happened in our country during the time we have been plunging toward socialism? Are we actually at that point where the Constitution may be hanging by a single thread and we need to step in to save it?”
- Dr. Ernest L. Wilkinson, BYU Speeches, April 21, 1966, p. 9
“Anyone can look at the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith... Brigham Young and others.... I have always felt that they meant that sometime the question of whether we are going to proceed on the basis of the Constitution would arise and at this point government leaders who were Mormons would be involved in answering that question.”
- George Romney, interview in “A Man’s Religion and American Politics: An Interview with Governor Romney,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1967, v. 2, p. 25
“[T]here will be a complete change of government. Washington, D.C. will cease to be capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign.... A new government will be established among the saints and that political Kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of Constitutional government.”
- Duane S. Crowther, Prophetic Warnings to Modern America, 1979, pp. 315-316
So my distaste and dislike of Romney cannot be called my bias against his religion. But how can Harry Reid be a member in the same church as Romney? I do not get how two opposite extremes can come together under one religion? Or are they really all that opposite?
I hasten to add I happen to have the same questions for members of the Catholic religion, given that the overwhelming elected and appointed leaders in this nation on this day are liberal Catholics.
Seems to me this nation has devolved into a ‘state’ religion called ‘everybody is doing it’ whatever it happens to be on any given day.
Just as with Obama, one cannot serve two masters.
Oh just a heads up to the finger pointers, I drug my flu sickened body to the polling place and voted for Romney and Akin. The only place I have been in over two weeks was out to vote.
K?
So regarding your secret underwear, isn’t that just part of the problem with your religion? I mean, you have more secrets than the Presidents Book of Secrets.
Is that how God really wants his children to worship him and be Shepherds of Men?
Hold God back until you think they are ready for the next level of “worthiness to prove yourself?”.
Okay, you don’t say it exactly like that but why bother? God makes clear “There is none worthy, no not one” and then he never, ever bothers to correct or change his opinion of man.
But, you have this whole ‘worthiness” thing going on. Why? God, couldn’t care less.
So who gets to decide who a bigot is?
Inside of Mormonism, they are both the same, both are temple Mormons, the elite, the most devout, the most devoted, both are paying the required 10% minimum of income, and both carry ID proving that, and that they are temple members and both are in the process of becoming gods of their own planet, as our God is on this planet.
Is this then a money thing? The more money you can give the bigger planet you get to rule? I will admit in advance I am ignorant about their doctrines. So the way to the top is by how much money to give? I am trying to understand how Harry Reid and Mitt Romney can go to the same church. I could not attend the same church Harry Reid is a member in 'good' standing.
For a cult founded on money and sex, and judging by the massive amounts of wealth the Romney line has pumped into the religion, way above the 10%, I would guess that the money buys a lot.
In regards to temple membership though, and qualifying for becoming a god, it is required that you give 10% of your income, and the amount doesn’t figure in, just the required percentage.
You are checked out on this during the vetting process of earning temple membership, which allows you to switch from attending the plain, church like buildings, to attending the glorious temples, and partaking in the secret ceremonies.
They aren’t just members of the same religion, they are members of the same elite, holiest, inner circle of that religion, members who share the inner secrets of the temples, secrets unknown and forbidden to lessor Mormons.
Your last paragraph pretty much describes the Romney campaign.
The very last question is the key to the whole thing. Put aside their common religion for a while and examine both their very public and verifiable records concerning the issues that matter in political life and you will find that Romney/Reed are two peas in the same pod, liberal to the core, despite Romney's extreme (for him) tilt to the right, since he decided it would behoove him to tilt that way, if he ever wanted a shot at the presidency.
The phoniness of Romney shows in every aspect of his persona. Read through the "Romney truth files" on this forum, if they are still there, I haven't looked lately. They will show you the real Romney. This forum's owner and administrators knew Romney and acknowledged who and what he was from the very start and publicly displayed it.
The acceptance of Romney as the candidate came grudgingly and late in the process when those same folks realized that he, (Romney) was the only alternative to Obama.
Scratch more than just the surface and you will find that Romney/Reed are the same person - Remember, putting their common religion aside, the cold hard facts speak for themselves, no matter the cause for them.
Romney is a liberal, born a liberal, raised a liberal by his liberal father and mother, lived and governed as a liberal and thank goodness, has now died (politically) a liberal.
Only if that same "Jewish conservative", claims that his religion is the only true Christian religion.
Me too. Interesting that the lady writes about the Mormon defender being Catholic. I think we're more tolerant of other religions. What I never understood during this election was why Mitt being a Mormon was a legitimate reason not to vote for him.
The anti-Mormon crowd kept pointing back to what my Catholic Church says about Mormonism as if that were some reason not to vote for him - to which I thought, well, duh, it's the Catholic church. We think all you guys are wrong! We also don't believe the Bible dropped out of the sky as a cohesive unit. I think believing the earth was created in 7 24 hour days is as weird as Mormon underwear.
All that said, however, I did find this lady's perspective a little odd. She seems somewhat afraid of her faith being exposed, but I suppose that's to be expected when your faith is built on sand. That's quite a different perspective from a well catechized Catholic who will be happy to discuss the origin and evolution (i.e. the history) of our Traditions and dogmas.
Apart from the fact that I never suggested the above, here or anywhere, I was merely referring to those who sling around religious dogma, whether it is formatted and in multi-color or not.
The larger point was (and I made it early), dogmatic arguments are defeated by the 1st Amendment, because everyone is allowed to practise whatever religion they see fit. Which makes the "my god is better than your god" stuff really, really silly.
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