Posted on 09/26/2012 4:42:57 AM PDT by wesagain
It's a bad time for anything important to come before the Supreme Court now that its composition is 4 liberals, 4 conservatives, and 1 moron.
The fruit of labor is measurable, but how? In the enjoyment you get out if it? Okay. But if you’re not also the consumer, in the smile on the guy you sell it ti’s face. Yes, but that’s not very interesting to you. It is commonly measured in what you can exchange for it, through the medium of money. That is, prices.
But money has its own price. Because of variance amongst people in time preference—some save, others spend—supply of and demand fir it vary. It is silly for us to pretend like money is sterile and bears no fruit. There is a market for money just like there’s a market fir apples. The proof is that people are willing to buy it.
“The holding of money may or may not produce added value”
The making or holding of anything may or may not produce added value.
IMHO..we’re all adults...we can get the nation’s legitimate expenses paid for without rifling through one another’s bank accounts, retirement funds, and securities and equities and property values and mortgages etc..
All that unneccessary nonsense is just to give the politicians’ greedy eyes and minds ideas about what they “think” they should do with it all.
Where I live, there is no tax on food, but there is on beer. If we go to the same store and you buy food and I buy beer, I will pay tax and you will not. We made different decisions which effected our level of taxation. But we did so with the rules being applied to us equally, even though the effect was different on each of us.
Two teams playing football, under normal circumstances, play under the same rules, even though the one that scores a touchdown is awarded more points than the one that kicks a field goal. The outcomes are different, but the same rules apply to both. If one team was awarded more points for a touchdown than the other, that would be playing by different rules.
I know a few people who do not pay taxes on the compensation for their labor. The smart thing to do is just STFU about not paying. Doesn’t work too well if you have a job, but very simple if self-employed. IRS will pretty much leave you alone if you don’t broadcast your non-payment.
One guy I know stopped paying got a form from the IRS asking him to sign a form stipulating to an implied income and a tax liability to go along with it. He declined to complete the form and return it. In reality, it was a contract for which he had no obligation to sign. The IRS called him once about it and asked why hadn’t returned it. He never heard from the IRS again.
Beecraft wrote a book 30 years ago which provided photocopies of each of the legislative record of each State ratifying the 16th Amendment. It proved conclusively that the Amendment did not receive the ratification of enough States [For example, one State passed a resolution that the amendment NOT be ratified — but it was counted as ratified].
The Secretary of State in 1913 put out a press release that the Amendment “appeared to be passed”, Congress voted on laws which implemented it, and the President signed it.
No Governor, legislature, or Court wanted or wants to evaluate the evidence that the 16th Amendment ratification was a complete fraud - just like no Court will listen to any arguement that Obama is not a natural born citizen.
http://www.supremelaw.org/fedzone11/index.htm
Read chapter #9 [or the whole website for that matter].
The law of presumption
[Also see tagline]
This Country needs a do-over, badly.
The question is can we out vote them in this coming election?
i am not too sure, but it could be our last chance.
I think it may already be too late to outvote the parasitic 50% of the Country, but our hope is that they don't show up at the polls.
Unfortunatley, many vote multiple times, and the cartoon-character-vote by Absentee Ballots will be in full-swing in Ohio, which I think (Ohio) will indicate the outcome of the total election with the results there.
We are treated the same. This is equality of opportunity.
One person paying 10% and another paying 40% is not equal.
>> “The making or holding of anything may or may not produce added value.” <<
.
Yes, that is why there definitely is a fundamental difference, since labor always produces value, while the holding of money may be for an abundance of reasons.
>> “The fruit of labor is measurable, but how?” <<
By literally measuring it. It may be board feet of lumber cut, feet of pipe trenched and laid, barrels filled with whatever, contracts reviewed, books written, but it is always measurable.
Money on the other hand is merely the method of exchange of that product. The ‘price’ of money relates only to acceleration of acquisition time for some product, tangible, abstract, or facilitative.
Who are you, David Ricardo? Read some economics past the 1860s. Labor absolutely does not always produce value. If I dig a hole and fill it in I am in the same position as not having worked at all.
>> “If I dig a hole and fill it in I am in the same position as not having worked at all.” <<
.
Really? - Then why did you do it? - No you are not in the same position. Was it for physical conditioning? Or for testing the soil at the bottom of the hole? or for locating a pipe or wire?
Digging a hole and filling it back in happens every day in the construction business; Work is done for pure physical fitness by millions every day.
Your arguments are getting less and less realistic.
No, it is not always measurable. There are countless jobs which produce nothing like a cord of wood nor a barrel of crude oil. And even those that do produce tangible stuff, do you think measuring it physicallyaccomplishes anything? Pipe trenches aren’t worth so-and-so by the foot because of the nature of matter being extended in the dimension of length. It has a price because people are willing to pay for it. Or for the service of things travelling through the pipe which will be laid there, rather.
To a freezing man with no shelter a cut of wood may be priceless. To a market already saturated with wood it may be as valueless as a second meal to a man already stuffed. You could hold into it until it is worth more than zero or carry it to a town not stuffed with wood. But that’s be speculation and no better than betting on the future value of money.
Any taxation without representation is theft.
Anytime the government takes by force the property of its citizens, that is theft and proof the government does not consider anything personal property, rather property of the government subject to confiscation. We just get to keep what they let us.
No tax should ever be placed on property and income is property.
“the ‘price’ of money relates only to acceleration of acquisition”
Acceleration and decceleration, both. Why the scare quotes around price. Do you honestly not think it has a price? There’s not an apparent market one now that the banking industry has been cartelized and the supply of legal tender monopolized, I admit. But there is a market price.
Why do you say “only”? That is a crucially important function, especially in a complicated economy like ours. Its frustration and manipulation is at the heart of the periodic bubbles that plague us.
“If the government decides to tax boats, is the tax unconstitutional because they pay and I don’t? No. Why? Because it is equally applied — if I buy a boat, I would be subject to the same tax.”
Do you receive some sort of representation from your neighbor having paid taxes on that boat, such as a road built? Yes? Then you received unjust representation.
NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!!!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.