Posted on 08/18/2012 8:48:02 PM PDT by null and void
Looks like the answer that I’ll get from my congress critter.
Thanks
As Salgak pointed out earlier, "the armed Federal types I run into daily complain that if THEY want to practice, both ammo and range time are on their own time and money, not Uncle Sam’s." I know this is the same with the State guys, too. The State has to qualify once every year or two and then it's just one short afternoon at the range where they have to qualify on two weapons. It's wait for your turn, hit the X and sit back down. Anything else is on your dime and time.
She eventually used-up her luck and got the zot in late ‘08.
Dec. 21, 2012. The day they make the official announcement that the sovereign United States no longer exists, and the North American Continent is now part of the New Socialist Western Hemisphere.
Things that may ya go hmmmm
Civil servants armed with hollow points.
Sounds like someone is expecting some trouble as ObamaCare rolls out and taxes go thru the roof.
Well if they are really planning to use these babies for practice rounds you are going to get about 60,000 people with a hellava flinch. LOL!!!
Strategerist ~ People just happened to notice them now.
Government solicitations have been public on Fed Biz Opps for years.
Sooth us, find a similar set of purchases five years ago, or any time before.
IOW, put up, or...
I've heard of this being an issue at smaller local levels, but I guess I assumed it wouldn't be a second thought at a bloated federal level where they consider money to be an unlimited resource.
*shrug* It does seem to go well with all the surplus APCs NVGs MilSpec body armor and other "surplus" mil equipment the local LEOs are getting from Saint Obama's stash.
They don’t call it a Civil Defense force, that would imply we need (or perhaps deserve) defense.“We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.” Barack Hussein Obama, 7/2/2008
The official name is National Civilian Community Corps.
I think of it as the NATCCC, or simply the NATCs...
“It is the height of foolishness to train/practice with a different type of ammunition than you will carry.”
That is BS. Yes, make sure the rounds feed well in your gun, but practice constantly with hollow points? LOL! In the adrenaline-filled rush of an actual scenario, at the close range such battles take place in, almost every other factor so far outweighs the minute differences between rounds that it is negligible.
The basics of keeping the gun running, stance, presentation, grip, sight focus, trigger control, shot placement, basic tactics and such are the real key to survival, and can, indeed, be honed for the most part even through regular dry fire practice.
Fools who waste the taxpayers’ dollars practicing extensively with hollow points “just because they can” (ie, don’t have to pay for it) are no more likely to prevail in a gun battle than anyone else. Indeed, I believe the accuracy statistics on the typical inner city criminal who uses simple “point and shoot” technique just about match LEOs in the same gun battles.
Ask? No. We've had a couple people blandly assure us they are, but so far no one has produced a shred of evidence that any such massive purchases were made in the past.
It's pretty easy to mouth off with statist talking points.
Report the truth, not so much...
Regarding our training requirements, we must comply with those set forth in the Attorney General Guidelines for OIGs with Statutory Law Enforcement Authority. You can find those guidelines here: http://www.ignet.gov/pande/sta....
One of these guidelines is mandatory quarterly firearms qualification, which is required of every Federal law enforcement agent to ensure agent and public safety. This critical training expends a considerable amount of ammunition. We have about 295 criminal investigators who must qualify with a firearm four times per year. If each investigator uses 150 rounds per qualification, then we would need 177,000 rounds per year. This number can vary based on the total number of agents, and any type of specialized training we might undertake.
To answer some other comments, this is a routine procurement that we typically make every fiscal year. The exact amount purchased varies some from year to year. For example, we may purchase more ammunition in a given year given available funding, and then purchase less the following year. Generally speaking, though, the amount of ammunition we use every year has remained consistent since the mid-1990s, when our office was created after Social Security became an independent Federal agency.
Finally, we certainly can’t speak to the type of ammunition the U.S. military uses. However, nearly every law enforcement agency—local, State, and Federal—uses hollow point ammunition, because it has been determined that it is most effective for law enforcement purposes. We purchase this type of ammunition for training because it is standard law enforcement practice to use the exact same type of ammunition during training as is used during the normal course of law enforcement duties.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this important conversation. We encourage your feedback and questions.
“Unknown to Congress, Does DHS plan to declare war on some country?”
Yep, we call her “America”.
More proof....but we’re all just crazy, huh ?
Good. Thanks!
I certainly hope so.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/articles/2012/federal-law-enforcement-agencies-buy-ammunition.aspx
Federal Law Enforcement Agencies Buy Ammunition
Posted on August 17, 2012
You may recently have seen some in the Internet rumor mill feverishly repeating the obvious truth above, in an effort to stir up fear about recent acquisitions of ammunition by the Department of Homeland Security and a number of smaller agencies. The mildest writers have questioned why seemingly mundane agencies would need ammunition at all; more incendiary authors suggest that these government agencies are preparing for a war with the American people.
Much of the concern stems from a lack of understanding of the law enforcement functions carried about by officers in small federal agencies. These agents have the power to make arrests and execute warrants, just like their better-known counterparts at agencies like the FBI.
For instance, the Social Security Administration solicited offers for 174,000 rounds of pistol ammunition. But the agency has 295 special agents who combat Social Security fraud that costs tax payers billions each year, so the order works out to roughly 590 rounds of ammunition per agent for training, mandatory quarterly qualification shooting and duty use. More than a few NRA members would use that much ammunition in a weekend shooting class or plinking session.
Another recent rumor questioned a request for 46,000 rounds of.40-caliber ammo by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. NOAA inadvertently fueled that speculation through a clerical error that suggested the ammunition was destined for the National Weather Service. NOAA later clarified that the ammunition was actually for the little known Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, which enforces laws against illegal fishing and marine life importation. The ammunition is for 63 personnel, amounting to about 730 rounds per officer.
The most widespread of the recent rumors involves a Department of Homeland Security contract for a maximum of 450 million rounds of .40-caliber jacketed hollow-points, to be supplied over the next five years.
After receiving numerous questions from his constituents regarding the contract, pro-Second Amendment U.S. Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-Ga.) and his staff set out in search of the truth. In a press release, Rep. Westmoreland’s office explains:
If you take the number of agencies that will be using this ammunition – CBP, Citizenship and Immigration Services, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), ICE, the U.S. Secret Service, Transportation Security Administration, the DHS police force, and all the guards that protect the various buildings these agencies are housed in, and spread that out over 5 years, you start to see that 450 million rounds really isn’t that large of an order. Especially considering it is used for training purposes like firing range and live fire exercises, on-the-job use (though that is very limited), and to shore up their supplies. In fact, there are 65,000 – 70,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS who would be covered under this … ammunition contract. If DHS were to purchase all 450 million rounds over 5 years, then that would equate to only about 1,384 rounds of ammo per year per law enforcement [officer] … assuming the lower estimate of only 65,000 law enforcement personnel at DHS. Considering those agents go through training exercises several times per year, that is not a lot of ammunition.
Perhaps most strangely, some have cited the purchase of hollow-point ammunition as evidence of the federal government’s evil motives. Hollow-points are the defensive ammunition of choice for federal, state and local law enforcement officers across the country, just as they are for private citizens. These attacks are eerily similar to statements made by gun prohibitionists, who spent the much of the ‘70s, ‘80s and ‘90s complaining about “dum dum” bullets. (In fact, the Violence Policy Center’s website still exhibits a publication lamenting that federal ammunition law “has no effect on today’s generation of high-tech hollow-point ammunition.”) The attacks also ignore the fact that federal agents, unlike average taxpayers on more limited budgets, normally train and qualify with their duty ammunition.
As most gun owners will agree, skepticism of government is healthy. But today, there are more than enough actual threats to the Second Amendment to keep gun owners busy. With two key Supreme Court decisions hanging by a one-vote margin, the Justice Department deeply involved in a cover-up of a disastrous Mexican gun smuggling operation, and President Obama touting a ban on popular semi-automatic firearms, there is no need to invent additional threats to our rights.
To be perfectly blunt and honest, I honest to God hope I’m wrong every day. If I’m wrong, I’ll just be mocked and discredited. I can live with that, but I can’t live with being thrown in modern day FEMA gulag.
We live in times that no longer allow us to shrug our shoulders and say, “Naah. That can never happen here”. We now live in times that force us to say, “Holy crap! I hope that’s not true!”
I’m not saying we should be like the Alex Jones crowd, but when verifiable evidence like this appears, it should be taken very, very seriously.
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