Posted on 07/10/2012 12:12:26 PM PDT by Sleeping Freeper
“Neighborhoods are for people to live and not a place to have church services.”
_______
Or at least go through the steps of getting a zoning variance so your neighbors get a say at public hearing. If the neighbors are cool with it, fine, but everyone pays for their home and property and all should be able to enjoy what they pay for in the condition that they purchased it.
SAy Man....this aint no residential area. This is a Neighborhood!!
If he wants to hold church he needs buy or rent a bldg that is properly zoned for a church. I see store fronts in old shopping ctns used for this all the time. If he can get away with this then Joe Blow down the street can open a Bingo Hall in his backyard...right?
You see where this can lead.
Zoning laws are for the good of the people.
It looks like the converse here.
Sounds like a street parking hog. Not neighborly, in a way this other fellow was.
The original New Testament churches DID meet in houses. For all the pestilences of Roman rule, they didn’t have zoning.
“False reporting at its finest.”
Good catch!
I think we at FR do ourselves a big disservice when we go off half-cocked jumping to conclusion without knowing the full story.
We’re quick to condemn Obama when he jumps to conclusion about the “stupid” cop that arrested his friend “breaking into his house”, yet so often we do the same.
Glad there are Freepers keeping up on this jerk.
He is an arrogant A-hole pushing his schtick for validation his brand of Christianity is important and through his game seeking relevance.
Dude’s a Bozo and Homie duh Klown Don’t Play Dat Game....
Property rights are just as important as freedom of speech-they go together. What if I put a adult book store right next to your house or the house of your grandkids?
I am very strong on property rights because I grew up in farm country with zero zoning laws and saw first hand how people do stuff to their property that is an eyesore/hurts other neighbor's property values. A guy right across from my dad's farm put in a semi truck repair garage on his property. Now there is 60-60 semi truck junkers/wrecks and other assorted junk in 5 foot high weeds out in the field my parents have to look at each day. Not a thing they can do about it.
What Salman did was abuse his right as a property owner and was inconsiderate of his neighbors. Millions of people are having Bible meetings in their homes across the country just fine. When 60+ of his neighbors signed a petition against him that is telling. Are you saying they are all anti God Atheist?
How many people are attending these bible studies? If it is 10 or 20, the government reaction is outrageous. However, a 2,000 square foot room could probably seat over 200 people, and if that many were showing regularly showing up it could create a nuisance for the neighbors.
Did neighbors complain about problems caused by the gatherings or did the government simply come in for no real reason?
What if a neighbor actually converted their garage to a 2,000 square foot game room, and made it into an unofficial “youth center”, where dozens of teenagers were coming frequently for regular events?
I guess the fundamental question was, did the meetings have the impact of the neighborhood of having an active, house of worship or business, in a residential zone?
Regardless of any of that, I think the 60 day jail sentence is outrageous. There are real criminals who need to be locked up. At worst he should have had to pay the fines.
The more I learn about the “Pastor”, the more I think he is in the wrong.
Other articles described him as an “ex-gangbanger” who served time for a drive by shooting.
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/05/michael_salman_in_fight_with_p.php
Also, looking at the statement of beliefs on his website, he denies the Trinity, and preaches the heresy of Modalism (3 “manifestations”, not 3 Persons of God).
“We believe in the trinity with respect that 1 God who is spirit who is holy thus is the Holy Spirit is manifested in 3 persons. Father, Son, and Comforter. That God creator of Heaven and earth is the Father. Father in Creation, Son in Salvation, and Comforter in Humanity. Not 3 person but 3 roles and 1 God.”
http://www.hcfaz.org/Whatwebelieve.html
What if members of my church showed up outside your bookstore photographing the customers, posting their faces, and informing their families?
You'd go to the police? Oh you libertarian you! What happened to my free speech rights? This is where we are ruled by an illegitimate power, and you don't even see it.
You are so used to seeking police power you don't have any concept for how liberty works. What if your family blocked access to that truck repair shop until they cleaned up their act? What if you offered to help them?
I have a neighbor across a rural road. I'm a native plant geek. He doesn't care. Should I call the "weed police" and pay them full hazard-pay retirement? Should I get zoning laws passed?
I don't. I take care of his weeds to protect my property, and maintain easements thereby. Why? Every time, and I do mean EVERY time we ask "authorities" to solve a dispute, we pay for it, dearly. Not only is that cost in money and time, it is in liberty. Best you get that through your thick skull.
“What Salman did was abuse his right as a property owner and was inconsiderate of his neighbors.”
Can you be more specific?
“Keeping the peace and enforcing zoning laws is not ungodly, but annoying your neighbors in the name of Christ surely is.”
What specific violations? My guess is what annoys the neighbors is that they dislike how he chooses to worship outside of mainstream large denominational churches.
“Also, looking at the statement of beliefs on his website, he denies the Trinity, and preaches the heresy of Modalism (3 “manifestations”, not 3 Persons of God).”
So the bill of rights only applies to trinitarians?
Of course not. My point is that Christians shouldn't necessarily rush to get behind this “pastor” who:
1) Teaches damnable heresy.
2) Is an “ex”(?) gangbanger” who fired multiple shots into an occupied home, barely missing an innocent woman in 1992.
3) Was arrested for impersonating a police officer, AFTER his alleged jailhouse “conversion”.
4) Has flouted local zoning laws and lied about the purpose of the “game room”. (See Proverbs 12:22)
5) Has deceptively characterized this as a battle over having a few people over to his house for Bible studies, when, in fact, this is about him building and running a house of worship, in his back yard, that does not comply with building codes, creating a nuisance to his neighbors and a potential danger to his congregants.
“Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.” - Romans 13:1-2
“13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake, whether to the king as supreme, 14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men— 16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.” 1 Peter 2:13-16
I don’t know the specifics, and you don’t either. I’m in Texas, you’re apparently in New Jersey.
What we do know is that this guy lives in a state that is friendly to Christians and that he’s been charged with violating 67 city code violations.
That’s way more than “annoying the neighbors.”
Maybe your town allows anybody to build anything for any purpose anywhere. Most don’t. I wouldn’t buy a house next to a church, even though I’m a faithful Christian who attends services several times a week — at a place where such facilities are permitted to build. This man, in violation of his city’s ordinances and over objections of his neighbors, built a church building in his back yard.
Not everyone who calls themselves a “church” is modeling Christian behavior.
This isn’t about freedom of religion but rather about being disrespectful of his neighbors, his neighborhood, and his city’s laws. That’s not Christ-like.
Thank you for a serious and reasonable post.
You know what really annoys me about this guy?
He makes other Christians look bad by hiding bad behavior in the guise of religious freedom. Totally against scripture.
His neighbors signed a petition, again obviously outside the covenants.
I prefer when Laws rule, not mobs. But then that is a Republic not a Democracy. I really do not care why he is having meetings in his home. But I do find it suspect that I do not hear of homosexual groups being imprisoned for what they do in the privacy of their own homes.
The words “Politically Correct” is simply a way to say wrong, but voted overwhelmingly right.
Amerika, the land of the Fee and the home of the Knave.
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