Posted on 02/17/2012 5:11:13 PM PST by SJackson
Hold your horses. I didn’t lie as much as I made a mistake. If you look at my post, it was at 1:00 in the morning. Although I briefly thought I should search your posting history to make sure that you were the right person, I decided to go to bed instead.
Having said that, this topic has been discussed at length, and when you went through my posting history you surely saw posts in a thread entitled something like “Tithing settlement ...- Mormon (Open)”. An early poster asserted that Bishops ask for tax returns to which I replied saying that the only question I am asked is whether I am a full tithe payer.
Seeing that you are so familiar with the LDS church, I image that you know that the LDS Handbook of Church Instructions doesn’t say anything about asking for tax returns.
As for your comment that lots of people have said that bishops can ask for a tax return, if you take a church of 14 million people you can find a group of people who will say almost anything. Further, when you have a lay priesthood that is also very large and very minimally trained, you will have some members of the group that will do almost anything. Just because some people say some things, and some people do some things does not mean that that is standard practice for the church.
And this is the point with which I take issue with your comments and the comments of others. Regardless what I say, it is assumed that I am either lying, or am not familiar with my own doctrine.
To the first, why would I lie to someone who I have never met? There is no upside for me or for the LDS church if I were to lie. Its not like I would confuse a lot of people. Honestly, if there isany written reference in any LDS scripture or manual to any issue that I comment on, you and others try to beat me over the head with it. So, even if I were to lie, I wouldn’t make any headway and my lie would be apparent. (I should note that in many instances people attacking the LDS church do not understand the doctrine and therefore improperly apply the scriptures).
As for not knowing my own doctrine. If the LDS church really has layers of secret doctrine, why do you think that you or other non-LDS members would be in a better position to know that information than me?
See post 39.
Telling people that you and I have discussed a topic when you have never posted to me was untrue.
A Bishop can require tax returns before giving a Temple Recommend, they are not forced to merely take your word that you are giving the mandatory 10%.
If you are already a temple Mormon, then you lose that recommend by failing to comply with the mandatory financial requirements, again, the Bishop is not required to solely take your word for it.
Did you have the interview with your bishop for the temple recommend, did he verify that you comply with the financial requirements? Has your Bishop followed up with regular interviews to continue verifying your financial compliance?
I can tell you how I know, I read, I have lds family who consider me “primitive” and tell me everything (they are all high mucky mucks), I have friends that tell me.
One of my lds uncles (a former bishop) did ask for proof of income, otherwise how would they know if the people were telling the truth.
An lds friend tells me she is billed by their bishop.
My lds cousin who left years ago, still has some lds person come to his door every year demanding his tithe.
Most lds people I know, actually do not know what the inner workings of mormonism.
Follow along there are many former lds on FR who can trace their roots to the beginning, they know what they are talking about.
Follow along there may be a million pages of information on mormonsim on the internet, with 90% coming straight from lds sources.......try and keep up.
My statement was inaccurate but I didn’t lie.
Show me where the church trains bishops to ask for this, or where there is any instruction relating to asking for tax returns. If you can’t show that, then you are operating on hearsay.
My bishop has never followed-up on anything that I have said to him, and has no way of doing so.
You are assuming that your connections to the LDS church are better than mine and that you know our doctrine and workings better than I do.
As for your uncle, like I said, with a large enough group, you are bound to have somebody who does almost anything. Does the fact that some Evangelical minister molests boys prove that that is doctrine of the church? Of course it doesn’t. What about the speaker on a Christian radio station? Again, it doesn’t prove the doctrine or what he should be doing.
If there were any reference in the instruction manual to asking for tax returns, it would have been used against me.
You keep slipping around the issue, are you claiming that Bishops, and the religion are forced to merely accept any applicants word for compliance?
http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Liahona/2000.htm/liahona%20december%202000.htm/the%20significance%20of%20tithing%20settlement.htm
Oh, yea, an lds uncle and aunt of mine have little money so they work for free in some lds facility to pay their tithes and how does the bishop determine what is owed, they show proof of income and that’s how the hours of free work were determined.
http://tech.lds.org/wiki/Tithing_settlement
So how do you prove your tithe is correct with the bishop unless you prove your income?
A++ Good job.
Answering questions that weren’t asked, making statements not relative to the conversation, disregarding what was said.......you have learned your lessons well grasshopper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zA-rZQB-xQ
Yep, that is what I am claiming.
You seem to have posted a link to an article that has nothing to do with the point of discussion. A person goes to tithing settlement, receives a paper so what they have paid, and is asked, “Is this a full tithe?” The article says no more than this, and certainly nothing about tax returns.
Huh? Ok, good job.
Any Church Leader of any church has such Biblical authority but few realize it. Can they legally make you do so? No. But any church leader unless church charter says otherwise can ask is this your full tithe. Full Biblical tithe taken traditionally as 10%.
I see the term cult used by many very loosely on these threads. By the definitions some on these threads hold the chosen 12 would have fallen into such definition in the first six or so chapters of The Acts. The believers lived in one community all living on common property and no one it seems owned nothing but it was equally distributed among believers.
Peter questioned Ananias and his wife about property they claimed they were donating or tithing the full amount paid too them from selling it and they both lied. I am not LDS nor Mormon but the Bigotry, Hate, and Ignorance, in some of these threads is astounding.
The Mormon cult stops you from practicing the full Mormon faith if you don’t pay the fees, you will not become a God, can’t enter the Temples, you can’t participate in religious faith with your paid up betters.
Are you a Bishop, or merely a Temple Mormon?
Please source that the early believers were communists and that the church leaders have the authority to ask you to prove your tithe.
I am talking about he New Testament.
What kind of mormon are you?
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