Bangkok Blasts Wound Iranian Attacker, 4 Others

AP via Yahoo News ^ | 14 Feb 2012 | THANYARAT DOKSONE and TODD PITMAN

[gandalftb]

The day Max Cleland and every soldier stepped on the field of battle in Viet Nam he became a hero.

Whether others sought to embellish that later for political gain is irrelevant.

He paid in blood, what’s your claim.

[Syncro]

You posted the irrelevant embellishment (for political gain?)-—I posted what really happened.

No biggie.

[edpc]

I didn’t mean you were wrong about the injury circumstances. Since I wasn’t clear, let me be. You’re wrong about what I get to do and say about whom.

[gandalftb]

I never said you didn’t have the right speak degradingly about wounded American soldiers. You’ve done that quit well. It doesn’t belong on FR that’s all, we are patriots.

I’d like to think that’s just wrong and that your cheap shots at warriors that are now politicians that you dislike are a disgrace.

[gandalftb]

“I posted what really happened.”

No you didn’t, you cut and pasted some loose talk from Ann Coulter who has never named her source. Another FR drive by.

Shame on both of you. Post a citation if you disagree with mine. That’s how you debate here on FR.

[edpc]

I never said you didn’t have the right speak degradingly about wounded American soldiers.

Actually, it's exactly what you said in the last sentence of post 16:

You do not get to make fun or, in any way stand in judgement of our wounded soldiers on the field of battle.

I'm not a flag burner, draft dodger, or chickenhawk. I did my time in the service. Not everyone who serves or steps foot on the battlefield is or was a hero. Military service or wounds suffered during that time doesn't equal blanket immunity.

[Syncro]

...you cut and pasted some loose talk from Ann Coulter who has never named her source.

Well in that case as you know where it came from, post a link to the source of Ann Coulter saying that.

You made a claim, it's up to you provide proof.

Shame on both of you.

"Both" of me will be waiting patiently for you to produce Coulter's words so it won't look like you are making stuff up.

Thanks goodness you saw where she said that, I never did.

Oh I pinged Coulter. She will probably want to see where those words came from that you so confidently attribute to her.

[gandalftb]

I was replying to your post where you said “I posted what really happened.” Here ya go:

I assumed you were quoting Coulter because she ran her mouth about Cleland: “Cleland lost three limbs in an accident during a routine noncombat mission where he was about to drink beer with friends.”

http://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2004/02/12/cleland_drops_a_political_grenade/page/2

Good that you pinged Coulter, I really do admire and generally agree with her, but flaming Cleland like that was declasse. I’d love to chat with her about it.

I accept that you were unaware of Coulter’s remarks, my over-reach.

[gandalftb]

I’ve reread my remarks very carefully. Where did I use the phrase “you didn’t have the right speak”?

Perhaps you misunderstood when I said “You do not get to make fun”. I meant you don’t get to make fun with out challenge from me. Everyone has a right to say degrading things and everyone has a right to call them on it.

So now that we all know our rights, answer for your comments about Cleland. Being a veteran you should be sensitive to wounded warriors like Cleland. Oh BTW, he got the Silver and Bronze Stars, them’s fer heroes. You were saying something about your time in the service......

[edpc]

As I said before: Not everyone who served is a hero. Additionally, a medal doesn't automatically mean a you're a hero. Plenty of awards that were undeserved have been handed out in every conflict. More than a few come to mind, but you can probably think of some yourself. Additionally, Cleland didn't receive the Purple Heart for his injuries. I wonder why (that's rhetorical, incidentally).

I mentioned my time in the service just to make the point I was not someone on the outside looking in. My service was honorable, but generally unremarkable, as most people's are. It's not generally something I discuss, nor is it something I feel the need to advertise in a tagline.

As for my comments, I don't think I have to answer for anything, especially to you. Your rightgeous indignation is a joke. You don't like it. You've made that point and I'm unconcerned.

Move on. I am.

[gandalftb]

Both a Silver Star and a Bronze star are good enough for most people to be considered a hero.

If we are going to have heroes, combat decorated veterans are as good a choice as we as a people can make.

You don’t get Purple Hearts for friendly fire, only enemy fire.

My tagline is part of my image, it offers background and a basis for some of my opinions. That’s why FR offers taglines.

My service was generally unremarkable also, but it was honorable and worth the sacrifices. I don’t have to be a veteran to come to the defense of a wounded warrior and asking anyone ridiculing them to stop and withdraw their comments is righteous indignation and reasonable.

I’ll compare the honorability of my comments to your any day. If you’re not concerned, why all the responses?

Perhaps you’re feeling the shame you should for your comments and trying to justify them only made you appear more hollow.

Adios!

[Jay Santos CP]

may have also been travelling under the name Max Cleeland.

Well done.

[edpc]

John Kerry won both medals you mentioned, but threw them over the WH fence. Later, he said they were actually other recipient's medals. He also received multiple Purple Hearts, despite spending no time in a hospital.

He's certainly no hero.

No shame here at all. They're things I would (and have) said to others face to face. I refuse to defend those that served, but decided to support an ideology and party diametrically opposed to the ideals and principles upon which the nation was founded. They obviously learned nothing from their experiences and are not deserving of the respect you demand.

Initially, I responded because there was a point to what you were saying to me and the other poster and vice versa. I am not unconcerned with the debate, I'm unconcerned with your displeasure in the comments. Not responding would have been what you classified in a post to someone else as "a drive by." However, it eventually turned to the ponderous.

[edpc]

If you read the entire thread, not everyone approves. Somehow, I'll try to get by.

[gandalftb]

I am no fan of John Kerry or Max Cleland politically, at all, I am a Goldwater conservative, Reagan was too liberal for me.

That has nothing to do with my comments here. I am only concerned that wounded warriors not be made fun of due to the nature or origin of their wounds.

That is out of line for you or Ann Coulter or anyone else.

We can bang the conservative Republican drum all we want but there are patriot values that are not negotiable.

I have no time for John Kerry. But it is undeniable that he faced enemy fire many times and attacked into that fire.

Yes he may have been given awards and decorations that were not fully earned, that happens to all kinds of vets Republican and Democrat.

At the time and place that Kerry was on the field of battle and did his duty, I honor and respect him. Of course he later lied to Congress and has not held up our national interest. For that I do not honor him and wish he were out of politics.

We have to be careful here on FR not to get so caught up singing with the choir that we forget our basic patriotic values.

Honoring of any vet is always conditional and limited. Just because they served honorably in wartime does not make them a good and honorable person.

If you wish to deride Cleland and Kerry, do it based on the ideology you rightfully dislike and don’t soil your comments with cheap shots about war injuries.

[edpc]

If you wish to deride Cleland and Kerry, do it based on the ideology you rightfully dislike and don’t soil your comments with cheap shots about war injuries.

Fair enough, but it was Cleland himself who equated his political career with his war time service.

After he was defeated by Chambliss, he whined about the tactics of his opponent, (then) RNC chairman Ed Gillespie, and Tom Delay. He tried to hide behind his military record, which had nothing to do with his loss.

In the campaign, he was attacked for not supporting the patriot act because he wanted more guaranteed union protection for TSA workers. They never said anything about his service.

Concerning his defeat, he had this quote in The Atlanta Journal Constitution:

"It was like the trauma of being suddenly and traumatically blown up, and I in effect relived all that hell of 35 years ago," Cleland said in an exclusive interview from his new office at Washington's American University. "It's been very tough to recover."

Oh, please. The two aren't even close. Would you rather have a Senate seat or all your limbs? Whatever sympathy or respect anyone had for him should have evaporated with that utterly ridiculous statement. He either really believes it, or it's a calculated ploy. Either way, it's pathetic.

Want me to separate the military career from the politcal? Tell Max, first.

[gandalftb]

Again, I’m no political supporter of Cleland, he can roast in his own fire.

Those that try to graduate their war record as a pass for political defects won’t get my sympathy.

Thanks for the post on his comments, he was wrong to compare any political injury to losing your limbs, sounds like a cheap attempt at attention and sympathy. Doing so demeans the honorable sacrifice he made in Viet Nam.

Even if Cleland won’t continue to fully honor his sacrifice, I will because he represents all the wounded warriors struggling to overcome their loss for the rest of their lives.

That loss doesn’t ever evaporate any more than they can get their limbs back.

For example, you can put Duke Cunningham in prison but that never diminishes his heroism, patriotism, or sacrifice.

I advise both Cleland and Coulter to stay with their core values and honor what can and should be honored and not allow ideology or political gain to smear and taint patriotic sacrifices.