Obama birth doc 'not scan of an original'

WND ^ | August 03, 2011 | Jerome R. Corsi

[DiogenesLamp]

True, but I didn't think that was what you thought happened here. I thought you still held the opinion that the LFBC released was a forgery digitally pieced together from multiple sources. Creating that and getting state officials to back it would certainly require a conspiracy. If you're saying the LFBC is an official state document that reflects false information only because it's protecting an adopted child--well, that's different.

I believe if you take the time to read through my various posts on the subject you will discover I have never suggested anything else. YES, I think it's a forgery. YES, I think it was created by the Hawaiian DOH. YES, I think it was created as a result of an adoption or some similar process regarding Barack Obama. YES, I think it was done legally and in accordance with Hawaii's laws and policies. NO, I don't think it was a "conspiracy."

I will mention again. *I* am adopted. *I* HAVE a replacement birth certificate. (I also have my original birth certificate.) Do I think something similar to my experience happened to Obama? Yes. Till I get better evidence otherwise, it seems the most salient explanation for all the dodging i've seen from both Hawaii and Obama up till now. (Note, no "conspiracy" required.)

[DiogenesLamp]

Since the law enforcement agencies had on several occasions killed innocent citizens in their own homes when they conducted SWAT nitghttime raids looking for criminals who fraudulently used those addresses, the refusal of the California law enforcement agencies to invalidate those fraudulent illegal alien drivers licenses was a potentially lethal threat. Ultimately we resolved that problem by moving our home and business out of California.

Good for you! "California." Land of the boned and home of the stupid. Let them choke on the fruits of their own idiocy.

[DiogenesLamp]

Exactly! Forty years involving who knows how many people, from state records workers in Hawaii to Supreme Court justices, and not one of them has blabbed. Pretty impressive. And yet they're too stupid to simply make a paper birth certificate and scan that.

Sounds about right to me. Of course state law may imprison them if they blab, but you might very well have the rest of it about right.

[DiogenesLamp]

And who might that officer have been? For which department did he work? What was his rank?

Ha! I used to find that information by googling the words "obama passport file murder". Guess what? Nothing happens when you do that now. You get NO RETURNS. I heard google was pulling sh*t like that, I guess that's another bit of evidence that their intentionally mucking with the search parameters.

It still works with yahoo though. F*ckin Liberal Google @ssholes.
Links.

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2009/04/mysterious-murder-in-dc-linked-to.html

http://politicalvelcraft.org/2010/05/25/fbi-witness-murdered-who-had-access-to-obamasoetoro-passport-records/

Do your own search. Just type in "Obama Passport file Murder" and on a non-censored search engine you will get dozens of hits.

In case you're too lazy, here is the salient quote.

" A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

Cmdr. Anzallo said a police officer was patrolling the neighborhood when gunshots were heard, then Lt. Harris was found dead inside the vehicle, which investigators would describe only as a blue car. "

[DiogenesLamp]

Yes, you accuse “birthers” of conspiring with each other to find his birth certificate to be invalid. It appears, therefore, that you have your own conspiracy theory to explain why other people conspire to discover evidence of the validity or invalidity of Obama's birth certificate and eligibility to serve in the Office of the President. Congratulations, you are a conspiracy theory proponent.

Well said. Exactly my point.

[DiogenesLamp]

Wiggins was a Honolulu Police Department officer for nine years before he joined the Liquor Commission as an investigator in 1994, and he soon noticed that “the climate for corruption was perfect.” [….]

That surprises me not at all. I have read that Hawaii was only admitted as a state because the Republicans in Congress wanted to admit Alaska as a state, but the Democrats wouldn't go along unless Hawaii was admitted too. (Alaska was reliably Republican, and Hawaii was reliably Democrat.)

[DiogenesLamp]

He was Leiutenant Quarles Harris, Jr., born 7 March 1983, died 18 April 2008, SSN 578-11-2856 (go here and put it in). His first name, not a rank in anything, misspelled or not, was "Leiutenant". He was not a lieutenant in any police force or military organization. He was a small-time identity thief who was using information fed to him by accomplices in the State Department to apply for fraudulent credit cards. He did not work for John Brennan's company and had no connection to the Obama passport snooping case.

Harris had been arrested the month before and was found in possession of 21 credit cards not his own, copies of eight passport applications not his own, and some grass (the excuse for the search). See MPD Officer William A. Smith's complaint. After his arrest, Harris reportedly agreed to cooperate in the investigation. It's likely his accomplices neutralized him for that reason.

Well I'm impressed. You obviously know more about this case than do I. That begs a different question. How do you know this? An uninterested bystander does not go through the effort to look for such information. Me thinks thou doth know too much. But thanks for the info. I'll update my knowledge base with it. Of course it begs yet another question. Why would a "small-time identity thief" be involved with Obama's passport file? Did he think no one would notice if he used that Identity? :)

[DiogenesLamp]

What birthers believe happened, however, does require a bunch of people getting together in secret to plot something. That's what makes it a conspiracy theory. (Note that conspiracy theories are not necessarily wrong.) My point was that how large that group is, and how competent they are, varies wildly depending on the theory's need at the time.

Except your explanation runs counter to reality. It is perfectly possible for State Officials to all certify false information and lie about what is contained in their files, and yet not be a "Conspiracy." "Conspiracy" is just a word used to denigrate those who question the verisimilitude of Hawaiian Officials and documents. As I said, I am a benefactor of a "Conspiracy" which isn't a "Conspiracy." It's called "Adoption."

[DiogenesLamp]

You are dismissed.

[cynwoody]

Ha! I used to find that information by googling the words "obama passport file murder". Guess what? Nothing happens when you do that now. You get NO RETURNS. I heard google was pulling sh*t like that, I guess that's another bit of evidence that their intentionally mucking with the search parameters.

No returns, eh? Easily disproven. Of course, most of the estimated 7,360,000 hits are just variations on your garbage. In fact, John Brennan makes the first SERP.

In case you're too lazy, here is the salient quote.

"A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

Cmdr. Anzallo said a police officer was patrolling the neighborhood when gunshots were heard, then Lt. Harris was found dead inside the vehicle, which investigators would describe only as a blue car. "

Being aware Leiutenant was his name, not his title, I'd dismiss that garbage of hand as unreliable. A reliable source would not abbreviate his first name and would not fail to note the oddity of his first name. So, either this source is incompetent or is attempting to deceive by implying the deceased was some sort of officer.

[Ha Ha Thats Very Logical]

I believe if you take the time to read through my various posts on the subject you will discover I have never suggested anything else. YES, I think it's a forgery. YES, I think it was created by the Hawaiian DOH. YES, I think it was created as a result of an adoption or some similar process regarding Barack Obama. YES, I think it was done legally and in accordance with Hawaii's laws and policies. NO, I don't think it was a "conspiracy."

Okay, I'm confused. I thought I remembered a long conversation about pixel size and depth in which you expressed the opinion that the birth certificate was the result of someone cutting and pasting bits and pieces from a lot of other digitized documents--in some cases rotating the pieces as needed--to assemble a digital file. Do you think that's how they created your birth certificate? If it was "done legally and in accordance with Hawaii's laws and policies," why wouldn't they just roll a blank form into the typewriter and type in what they needed?

[cynwoody]

That begs a different question. How do you know this?

I got curious when I initially didn't find him in the SSDI. I had to use the advanced search and narrow the deceased death date and age to the point where the result set was small enough to look through. Then I plugged the misspelled first name into Google and found plenty. As it turned out, I didn't need to go below the "I'm feeling lucky", LOL!

An uninterested bystander does not go through the effort to look for such information.

Debunking the debunkable is its own reward! (And, BTW, Google's not yet smart enough to ask, Did you mean: disinterested?)

Why would a "small-time identity thief" be involved with Obama's passport file? Did he think no one would notice if he used that Identity? :)

That's precisely the point. There is no reason to believe he was involved with Obama's passport file. Guys pulling off a sensitive political coverup would not risk jeopardizing their mission by engaging in common credit card fraud. And, if they did, they'd steal eight million files on a memory stick, not eight on paper.

[DiogenesLamp]

No returns, eh? Easily disproven. Of course, most of the estimated 7,360,000 hits are just variations on your garbage. In fact, John Brennan makes the first SERP.

Yup, it's working now. Perhaps they read my complaint, realized they'd been caught, and took steps to restore things back to normal? Just kidding. It wasn't working on my computer yesterday, for whatever reason. It would absolutely show nothing. Take out the word "murder" and it would show all sorts of stuff. Don't know what was going on, but it was peculiar.

Being aware Leiutenant was his name, not his title, I'd dismiss that garbage of hand as unreliable. A reliable source would not abbreviate his first name and would not fail to note the oddity of his first name. So, either this source is incompetent or is attempting to deceive by implying the deceased was some sort of officer.

I'm pretty sure I recall seeing this story on the Washington Times website. I would not have regarded them as an intentionally misleading source. I suspect there is some real confusion regarding the man's name. Who names their kid Lieutenant? (sp)

Yup, Here it is.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/

Sloppy reporting.

Well, thanks for setting me straight on this.

[DiogenesLamp]

Okay, I'm confused. I thought I remembered a long conversation about pixel size and depth in which you expressed the opinion that the birth certificate was the result of someone cutting and pasting bits and pieces from a lot of other digitized documents--in some cases rotating the pieces as needed--to assemble a digital file. Do you think that's how they created your birth certificate?

Not originally. I think they used a photographic process originally. Nowadays it is evident that it has been "digitized."

If it was "done legally and in accordance with Hawaii's laws and policies," why wouldn't they just roll a blank form into the typewriter and type in what they needed?

My birth certificate has a signature on it from my original birth doctor, yet the document was created 6 years after I was born. It is obvious when looking at his signature that the signature is a digitized copy of his original signature.

I have no doubt that when a court order necessitates creating a replacement birth certificate, that not always are all the original players still available to sign things. When such a circumstance occurs, the DOH officials have no choice but to use signatures which are in their files, and use some process to put them where they need to be. Nowadays that is digital editing using a product like Photoshop or something similar.

I suppose we could just ask them how they do it, but I suspect Hawaii is tired of answering questions regarding birth certificates.

[DiogenesLamp]

That's precisely the point. There is no reason to believe he was involved with Obama's passport file. Guys pulling off a sensitive political coverup would not risk jeopardizing their mission by engaging in common credit card fraud. And, if they did, they'd steal eight million files on a memory stick, not eight on paper.

Yes, the probabilities do not add up to the conclusion that he was murdered because he saw Obama's passport file. It is apparently a peculiar coincidence, and possibly reported the way it was for the purpose of fueling speculation and perhaps promoting sensationalism. Unless something else comes up which leads me to believe there is more to the story, i'm going to consider it resolved.

[Ha Ha Thats Very Logical]

My birth certificate has a signature on it from my original birth doctor, yet the document was created 6 years after I was born. It is obvious when looking at his signature that the signature is a digitized copy of his original signature.

Okay, that explains the signature. I'm familiar with that process: I have scanned copies of my signature for pasting into PDFs of contracts I'm e-mailed. Easier than printing and signing them and faxing them back.

But that doesn't explain why they'd need to do that with the rest of the form--all the typewritten information and, according to some of the doubters, pieces of the form itself. Do you think they had to assemble your entire birth certificate digitally, or do you think they just filled in a blank one with the new information and then affixed your doc's signature?

[WhiskeyX]

The party who is speaking irrationally, engaging in wild speculations about crazy conspiracies is yourself. The evidence for that is your ad hominem attacks describing the people you disagree with as “birthers” simply because they recognize the alleged facts of Obama’s birth records and other birth circumstances are impeached by the real world evidence.

The Hawaii Department of Health made statements claiming neither Obama or anyone else could request and receive a copy of their long-form Certifcate of Live Birth, and the short-form titled as the Certification of Live Birth was the one and the only certification that office could or would provide to Obama or anyone else. In the real world, that office was still fulfilling many orders for the long-form Certificate of Live Birth right up to the time in which people were publicly showing the Hawaii Department of Health was fulfilling their many orders for the long-form Certificate of Live Birth, proving the Hawaii Department of Health lied all the way into the year 2010. While you can attempt to denigrate the event as the pursuit of a conspiracy theory, the reality is that the Hawaiian officials repreatedly and stubbornly lied for at tleast two years as proven by the many long-form birth certificates so many people received during that period of time.

It is no different with the alleged long-form birth certificate released by the White House. It is an extremely poor and digital forgery. It is such a poorly executed forgery, they could just have well saved themselves some time and handwritten it in crayon. People can speculate all kinds of reasons and conspiracies for WHY the digital document was forged, but the prima facie evidence indicates this digital document is an unquestionable forgery.

Forgery of the birth certificate is a felony. Any person serving in the Office of the President engaging in such a felony is liable for impeachment, regardless of whether or not they are in compliance with the natrual born citizen clause of the U.S. Constitution.

[PA-RIVER]

There are witnesses that saw her in Washington with Satan, less than two weeks after his birth.

[DiogenesLamp]

But that doesn't explain why they'd need to do that with the rest of the form--all the typewritten information and, according to some of the doubters, pieces of the form itself. Do you think they had to assemble your entire birth certificate digitally, or do you think they just filled in a blank one with the new information and then affixed your doc's signature?

The Registrar's signature is also digitized. Each individual letter of text looks digitized. Even the straight lines are pixelated. It has no signature for mother or father though, merely a digitized version of their typed names. The typed lettering though digitized, looks like it was originally typed on a typewriter. I see a common mistake of not holding down the Shift key hard enough when typing capitol letters, causing the letters to be slightly higher than the rest of the word.

Did they copy and paste the whole thing? I doubt it. Did they copy and paste some of it? It certainly appears that they did. My document also does one clever bit of misdirection. It's official statement says:
" I hereby certify the foregoing to be a true and correct copy, original of which is on file in this office."

See what they did there? They didn't say this was a copy of the Original. They said it was a "true and correct copy". And they said the Original was on file in their office. This bit of lawyer talk is intended to convey the impression that you are looking at a copy of the original, but it does not actually say this. Clever that.

As for Obama. If he was Adopted by Lolo Soetoro, he may have had a new Hawaiian birth certificate created at that time. If he was later adopted by his grandparents, he may have received ANOTHER new replacement birth certificate at THAT time. He may have later gone back to court and asked for his Original name and birth information be restored, and this may have created yet a third new birth certificate! At the moment, there is no evidence to prove this happened, but there are quite a few pieces that seem to indicate it might have.

The point is, Adoption law and practices should not be permitted to interfere with an accurate assessment of a President's birth information. The Constitutional requirement should have brushed all subsequent laws aside like tissue paper. Everything may in fact be exactly as it appears. That horrible looking PDF file might actually be a butchered up version of his original birth certificate, but till people stop playing games, we have no way of knowing if we are seeing the truth.

[WhiskeyX]

Obama’s Kenyan relatives reported witnessing his birth in Kenya....