Iraqi army builds up first tank division (M1A1 Abrams)

United Press International ^ | Dec. 21, 2010

[sukhoi-30mki]

[hoosierham]

I just don’t understand why we killed thousands of Iraqis in order to build a new Iraqi Army.

[null and void]

Fully armored?

[Lurker]

I just don’t understand why we killed thousands of Iraqis in order to build a new Iraqi Army.

Does the name "Germany" mean anything to you?

[winner3000]

Isn’t this the same Iraq where Christianity is under siege?

[DTogo]

The army received the first 11 Abrams in August. That was part of a $6 billion arms package approved by the United States in December 2008 to provide 140 M1A1s and 400 Stryker combat vehicles. Both are built by General Dynamics Land Systems.

Lobbyists: all your Congressmen are belong to us.

[Kenny Bunk]

The Iraq-Iran War, which was the bloodiest trench stalemate since 1918, kept two sets of dangerous people fully occupied. Saddam was the recipient of under-the-table-intel from us, not-to-mention quite a few million artillery rounds and other supplies from us and our NATO pals. About 1.5 million casualties later, the Iraqis managed to push about 5 miles into Iran, and vice versa, and it was excellent cover for bumping off those annoyingly oil-rich Kurds by both sides!

Perhaps the Pentagon Planners intend to stage Iran-Iraq II, fighting the Iranians to the last Iraqi and hopefully, the last Iranian.

If that is the case, 140 Abrams tanks are not going to cut it.

Attention Kurds: Learn Spanish and take a look at Southern California Real Estate.

[hoosierham]

I believe the U.S. rebuilt the West German military in response to the Russian creation of the East German military in direct violation of the existing agreements.(Which only proves again that agreements with bad people last only as long as those agreements are to their advantage.)

[GonzoGOP]

One thing that has always amazed me about the Arab/Muslim world is that they have to import almost all their major weapons systems. You would think that being in a part of the world that has been continuously at war for several thousand years would at least give you a booming armaments industry. Sort of a a conciliation prize. But instead they have to import everything from AK-47s to SAM missiles, to fighter planes and tanks.

Pakistan builds some missiles, but still has to import the high end stuff. Iran trys to build knock off weapon systems, but they usually end up promoting laugh fests here on FR.

[smokingfrog]

Seems like a bad idea, even with the downgrades. (Unless you’re a defense contractor.)

[Lurker]

I believe the U.S. rebuilt the West German military in response to the Russian creation of the East German military in direct violation of the existing agreements.

With Iran being literally right next door I don't really have a problem with this. As long as they Iraqis are paying in cash or oil for the hardware anyway.

[AppyPappy]

Because they are pinning down the Iranians on the west.

[lacrew]

It always gets people’s pulse going, when we sell weapons abroad. A few take aways:

1. If we ever want to leave Iraq, we have to make sure a neighbor, like say Iran, can’t just invade and take over. Giving the Iraqis superior tanks does this.

2. These will not have the superior armor, will not have the commander’s auxillary site, and will not have the gps system. In short, US M1A2’s are superior, and we should never have to worry about facing these tanks in battle.

3. Future Iraqi governments will have to play nice with us, if they want to be able to purchase ammunition, or spare parts...and these vehicles eat through parts and entire power packs like crazy.

I never see a problem with selling line of site weapons systems, to whoever wants to buy them. In an odd way, it keeps other nations on our leash. Something with a long, anonymous, one shot, no repair parts needed, reach - like a missile...that would be different.

[DJ Elliott]

I have seen works of fiction that had nore fact than this article.

E.G.

The Strykers were canx. Iraq is getting used M113s instead.

The BTR4s are not mentioned and that is a larger order than the Strykers was.

The order for 140 M1A1s includes an option for another 140. Armor divs are ~300 tanks and Mech Divs ~200. 55 M1A1s have been delivered so far [not including the 22 loaners for training].

The IA plans 8-10 heavy combined arms divisions - not 6 Armor Divisions - 7 have already been identified.

There is no mention of the 1,026 M113 Family of Vehicles, the 120 155mm howitzers, 24 M109A5 SP 155mm howitzers, bridging/engineer equippment, etc that Iraq is actually getting.

The 2,000 T72 story was a con foisted on the MSM in 2008 by Defense Solutions. They originally tried to sell that idea in 2005. In 2008, needing investors to avoid bankruptcy, DS shotgunned a claim to have made the deal. It was denied by GoI, IMoD, and USF-I. Note: The PT-91 is just the Polish version of the T-72 introduced in 1991 and terminated by the Polish government as not cost effective after fewer than 500 were built. They are not worth 500,000 - let alone the 3 million DS wanted.

Only 18 of the planned 20 IA Divs are to be line divisions - 2 are personnel security divs guarding the President, PM, CoM, and CoR. Only 14 Divisions are in the IA ATT.

[O6ret]

Aside from ignoring Hitler while he armed the Third Reich in preparation for the Nazi’s assault on Europe the most significant US foreign policy error in recent memory was allowing the Iran-Iraq war to go cold.

[Red Dog #1]

Next comes the F-16s.

It's no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome, but a successful Iraq has to have an Army and an Air Force.

[Terry Mross]

Didn’t we help another guy in Iraq arm once? His initials were S.H.

Before it’s over we’ll be fighting the enemy in tanks we gave them.

[sniper63]

With zero advances in science and technology over those same 2000 years of fighting, bear skins and stone knives seem to work just fine, I guess.

Old adage, why use a hammer when the rock fits my hand so well.........

[Gomer1066]

Why can’t the Muslims build a modern weapon system?

Because of totalitarian Islam.

Modern weapon systems like everything else hi-tech in the world depends on free minds and free markets.

The Muslims have neither, which means the West has military superiority.

[ken5050]

The next to last paragraph of the article is really confusing, if not bizarre..anyone else notice ?

"But supplying Iraq with M1A1s opens the possiblity of its Abrams having to go up against other U.S.-built tanks in the armies of Saudi Arabia, which has more advanced M1A2s, and Turkey, which has older M-60A1s."

This makes no sense whatsoever..