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IRS.GOV "If You File A Fraudulent Return, Keep Tax Records Indefinitely..." (
IRS ^
| 7 July 2010
| Robert A Cook
Posted on 07/08/2010 8:14:31 AM PDT by Robert A Cook PE
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To: skeeter
I don’t think you completely understand what constitutes felony tax evasion. We’re not talking about typos or math errors, or forgetting to sign your return.
21
posted on
07/08/2010 8:41:58 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: 1rudeboy
What I don’t understand is your point.
22
posted on
07/08/2010 8:42:31 AM PDT
by
skeeter
To: skeeter
1. You don't have to keep any records at all (if you are worried about incriminating yourself),
2. If your records incriminate you, the IRS already has them, and
3. If you engage in felony tax evasion and intend to "play stupid," get ready to pay your attorney a handsome sum.
23
posted on
07/08/2010 8:46:51 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: 1rudeboy
If you set out to commit a felony, you should probably be aware of the law.
Just because you’re aware of the law, doesn’t mean you
haven’t committed a felony.
24
posted on
07/08/2010 8:51:10 AM PDT
by
tet68
( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
To: Nervous Tick
My question would be how exactly the IRS defines fraudulent. ;-)
Simple. If you are accused of some kind of underpayment from long ago, and you tel the IRS you don’t have the records, they allege fraud.
25
posted on
07/08/2010 8:57:06 AM PDT
by
Atlas Sneezed
(Anything worth doing, is worth doing badly at first.)
To: tet68
Right, that's for the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and they won't need your records to do so).
26
posted on
07/08/2010 8:57:17 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Just another of the Feds saying, “We own you...literally.”
27
posted on
07/08/2010 8:57:19 AM PDT
by
Jack Hydrazine
(It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
To: Beelzebubba
If you are accused of some kind of underpayment from long ago, and you tel the IRS you dont have the records, they allege fraud. That's pure BS.
28
posted on
07/08/2010 8:58:18 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: 1rudeboy
The IRS must be just foolin’ with this ‘retention requirements’ stuff.
29
posted on
07/08/2010 8:58:26 AM PDT
by
skeeter
To: Robert A. Cook, PE
after 3 years, you should still save a copy of your 1040 and a cancelled check or copy of refund check.
It proves you filed. They cannot audit for errors after that point, but you have to prove you filed.
30
posted on
07/08/2010 8:58:26 AM PDT
by
campaignPete R-CT
("pray without ceasing" - Paul of Tarsus)
To: campaignPete R-CT
Please tell me your a tax attorney. My garage isn’t nearly large enough.
31
posted on
07/08/2010 9:01:43 AM PDT
by
skeeter
To: Robert A. Cook, PE
Back to the first dime you earned selling lemonade.
Oh, and any side bets that keeping records longer than 3 years will be regarded as prima facie evidence that you were defrauding the IRS?
32
posted on
07/08/2010 9:01:54 AM PDT
by
null and void
(We are now in day 530 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
To: 1rudeboy
No, the IRS will build its case against you without needing you to incriminate yourself . . . this is simply the IRS way of warning you that, if you plan on doing something it thinks is shady, be prepared to defend yourself.
All the IRS needs to do is say you knowingly overstated your deductions 8 years ago. You have tossed all the supporting evidence, and have no way to counter the fraud charge.
33
posted on
07/08/2010 9:03:49 AM PDT
by
Atlas Sneezed
(Anything worth doing, is worth doing badly at first.)
To: skeeter
I've seen people lose cases
because they failed to keep records. (But that's because they couldn't defend themselves properly).
I remember one guy who claimed (in a non-criminal case) that he never received any of the IRS' letters (some of which were sent registered mail). The IRS attorney said, "but you opened, cashed, and deposited all of your refund checks within days." The guy lost on that argument.
34
posted on
07/08/2010 9:04:49 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: Beelzebubba
All the IRS needs to do is say you knowingly overstated your deductions 8 years ago. Not "say," but prove. Beyond a reasonable doubt. In federal court.
35
posted on
07/08/2010 9:06:33 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: Lazamataz
“To” + “Get” + “Her” = “Together”
36
posted on
07/08/2010 9:06:53 AM PDT
by
null and void
(We are now in day 530 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
To: 1rudeboy
I dont think you completely understand what constitutes felony tax evasion. Were not talking about typos or math errors, or forgetting to sign your return.
No, but it’s easy for the IRS to charge that an alleged understatement of income or overstatement of expenses/deductions was “knowingly,” and you’re in criminal “fraud” territory, just because they decided to allege it.
Presumably, they’d prefer to have some kind of smoking gun corroboration, like a “scheme” between two people, or a second set of books, or other evidence that has no explanation other than intention. But your error can still be alleged as intentional, and they have one hell of a bargaining chip when negotiating a settlement of plea.
37
posted on
07/08/2010 9:07:29 AM PDT
by
Atlas Sneezed
(Anything worth doing, is worth doing badly at first.)
To: null and void
Oh, and any side bets that keeping records longer than 3 years will be regarded as prima facie evidence that you were defrauding the IRS? How much? I need the money.
38
posted on
07/08/2010 9:07:44 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: Beelzebubba
Any competent tax attorney can take that bargaining chip right off the table. Heck, I could do it. “Show me your cards.”
39
posted on
07/08/2010 9:10:13 AM PDT
by
1rudeboy
To: 1rudeboy
Not "say," but prove. Beyond a reasonable doubt. In federal court.I'm sure its possible for a taxpayer to win such a case against a prosecutor with all the resources of the state at his disposal.
But I'd bet it'd feel alot like losing.
40
posted on
07/08/2010 9:12:24 AM PDT
by
skeeter
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