Posted on 04/05/2010 3:13:26 PM PDT by wagglebee
Shalom.
All of us are at least honest enough to divulge our current and past religious affiliations since that is very relevant to our current theological positions. Those who refuse to do so are obviously not engaging in honest debate.
Are we to take a single verse and mold everything around that or interpret that text in light of the multitude of clear verses?
Why is it that you expect me to handle everything you toss at me while you duck everything?
And then why do you go at me personally instead of discussing the Bible?
Are you more impressed with back ground and credentials than you are the Word of God?
Or if one comes from low standing and without the accepted schooling or popular denominations do you then reject the Word that they share?
Facepalm? You deny the divinity of Christ to embrace a heresy that flies in the face of two thousand years of Christian belief and your response to us not agreeing with you is "facepalm"?!
One would think that you would understand that God Almighty was referred to as Jehova over and over and over again....The Lord of hosts, the Lord healer, the Lord provider, etc etc etc.
Are you a Jehovah's Witness? YES OR NO.
Do you consider yourself to be a Christian? YES OR NO.
Says the respecter of men above being a respecter of God.
Sorry, you don't get to set the ground rules and I have no obligation to meed your demands.
You are simply looking for a way to justify your rejection of the Bible and it is extremely obvious.
If you had read my posts with any understanding at all you would have some of those answers.
But you haven’t. And you won’t. You don’t care about anything other than trying to discredit me. You don’t care about the Bible and what it says.
The pearls are no long in front of you.
Well, for about two thousand years ALL Christians have confessed that Jesus Christ IS GOD. So, I guess you DO NOT consider yourself to be a Christian.
But you haven’t. And you won’t. You don’t care about anything other than trying to discredit me.
Nonsense. I posted this thread about rape victims and abortion. I later made a comment about when life begins and mentioned that Jesus Christ was fully man, you disagreed and the thread went off on a tangent.
You don’t care about the Bible and what it says.
Really? I've been asking for several days if you could cite a SINGLE translation of the Bible or an original manuscript where the word name is pluralized, you have systematically avoided that question. You have stubbornly clung to a claim that God is invisible to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, but ignored innumerable verses that say otherwise. It's not that I don't care about the Bible, it's that I don't care for your interpretation of it.
Isa 41:4 "Who has performed and accomplished it, Calling forth the generations from the beginning? 'I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He.'"Anyone want to guess what Name is translated by the word "LORD" above?Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.
Isa 48:12 "Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called; I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
Shalom
Excellent post!
Single verse????
I posted a number of verses, in context, containing the very words of Jesus Christ which clearly identify Jesus Christ as the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the Almighty, the one who was dead and is now alive and the one who was, and is, and is to come and the one who is coming quickly and who is identified by John as being the Lord Jesus.
If the very words of Christ are not sufficient to show you who he is, then nothing any of us is going to say will convince you.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
-- John 1:1-4, 14
When we Christians testify of God it is not a matter of our standing here and looking at Him afar, as if He were a thing or a hypothesis.
We are speaking of One we know. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t be Christian.
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Corinthians 2:14
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. – Revelation 4:11
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. – Revelation 1:8
And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. – Exodus 3:14
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. – John 8:58
As soon then as he had said unto them, I am [he], they went backward, and fell to the ground. – John 18:6
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. - Galatians 2:20
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? - I Corinthians 6:19
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. - I John 2:27
Man is not the measure of God.
It is not up to man to declare when God may or may not speak in or through His own Creation whether spiritual or physical.
And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here [am] I. - Exodus 3:4
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. - Matthew 28:18
But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. - Galatians 1:11-12
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. - Hebrews 1:1-4
To God be the glory, not man, never man.
Outstanding post dear sister in Christ!
Your offering regales my soul! Thanks be to God, and to you, Sister in Christ.
And thank you for your encouragement, dear brother in Christ!
That was awesome. Thanks.
Which "clear and unambiguous verses" say this?
It seems to me verses in John clearly demonstrate that the Father and the Son are One, "in" one Godhead which also includes the Holy Spirit. There is one divine Substance which expresses as Three Persons.
Since evidently you do not share this view, although you claim to believe in God, possibly you are a deist — in the sense understood by the Founders of our nation. To them — e.g., Franklin, Jefferson — a deist was a person who, though believing in God the Creator, was skeptical of the divinity of Jesus Christ.
I wonder what these verses from John's Gospel would mean to a deist in this sense:
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.People will read these verses according to their best lights. To me, the "thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee" statement strongly suggests a single, ONE divine substance. Thus, to me, the Holy Trinity does not contradict the Shema, "Hear O Israel! The Lord thy God is One!"If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. — John 14:6–11
That they may all be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. — John 17: 21–24
Others will disagree.
But really, Eagle Eye, is this the measure of your reasoning regarding the purported falsity of the Trinity: That God cannot be tempted by evil, but that Jesus Christ was so tempted; therefore, Jesus was not God?
That is certainly an easy test. But is it a truthful one? In particular, it is simply oblivious to the idea that the Son of God was incarnated as a man and so to some extent participates in human nature. Recognition of this would seem to counterindicate the application of simple formulas, such as "God cannot be tempted by evil, but that Jesus Christ was so tempted; therefore, Jesus was not God."
Are we to be satisfied with such simplistic, superficial answers to questions of such enormous importance?
Simply magnificent essay/post, dearest sister in Christ!
To God be the glory!
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