Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Where Did Our Real Wealth Go?
Pajamas Media ^ | 2-17-10 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 02/18/2010 4:36:23 AM PST by radioone

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-65 next last
To: 1rudeboy
Again, we can surmise that VDH generally does not believe in governmental solutions to problems caused by government. Which makes the typical protectionist response, more government, out of his ballpark.

Huh? You think, since he wrote the column, that readers might expect him to present his solutions?

21 posted on 02/18/2010 6:21:31 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Rummyfan; Will88
VDH is essentially saying that you cannot support a welfare state (he uses California as an example) solely on tax revenue generated by services, and the emphasis (again, ex. California) on the "millions of green jobs," "a wind and solar future," and the "high-tech sector" is meaningless if a government discourages mining, drilling, building roads and railroads, etc.

That's his observation, Will. The observation is its own solution.

22 posted on 02/18/2010 6:28:23 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Will88
You think, since he wrote the column, that readers might expect him to present his solutions?

Here in California we see the symptoms of the same Greek malady as we go from one budget shortfall to the next — dream-like borrowing, raising taxes, and furloughing, in lieu of the tough medicine of cutting government payrolls, changing pension payouts, and freezing the pay of state-workers until their compensation mirror images those in the private sector.

Poor reading skills again.

23 posted on 02/18/2010 6:28:54 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: radioone
Read the whole thing - it's well worth it. One more excerpt:

Why am I not too optimistic right now? Our President, who submitted the largest deficits in recent memory, and who is on track to nearly double the national debt in record time, continues to blame Bush — not just for Bush’s lamentable deficits, but for Obama’s own new unsustainable ones. I think his weird logic is: “Bush’s bad deficits made me trump them by a factor of four.” When the Commander-in-Chief expects the populace to believe that, or drops real unemployment figures and talks instead of theoretical jobs saved, or flip-flops on everything from evil Wall Street bankers now suddenly good, or bad nuclear power now vital, then we have about as much hope as we would have under Jimmy Carter.

24 posted on 02/18/2010 6:28:57 AM PST by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: agere_contra
America is in trouble not because of Free Trade, but because it can't compete.

As someone else said, "You're kidding, right?"

How does anyone in this country compete with $1/hr., no matter how productive they are?

What about the $20/hr. senior engineers overseas? How is someone supposed to justify getting a degree if that's all you'll ever make?

The natural result of globalization is leveling, which means we'll meet them in the middle. Bad for us because we're above the middle. It also means massive deflation, because lower wages mean people can't afford the current prices for housing, education and health care, and also means defaults on loans of all types as people's wages decrease, but what they borrowed doesn't. Sound familiar? We can't be a nation of 300 million marketing people and salesmen.
25 posted on 02/18/2010 6:34:22 AM PST by BikerJoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: BikerJoe
As long as you understand that we cannot be a nation of 300 million factory workers . . . some do not.

Goods and services production are symbiotic (which is essentially VDH's point), not exclusive to each other.

26 posted on 02/18/2010 6:37:48 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
Goods and services production are symbiotic (which is essentially VDH's point), not exclusive to each other.

I quite agree. We need a more diverse (and I believe more self-sufficient) economy.
27 posted on 02/18/2010 6:44:21 AM PST by BikerJoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

I wonder if you or anybody else here has a definition of “wealth.”

Obviously not all physical productions are true wealth, as money can be and often is wasted producing something that provides little or no value when completed.

Equally obviously, at least to me, some services and intellectual productions do create wealth despite having no physical existence. For instance, computers have greatly increased productivity and therefore the generation of wealth per worker hour. That has real value, even though the software programs that actually do the work don’t have any true physical existence.


28 posted on 02/18/2010 6:49:16 AM PST by Sherman Logan (Never confuse schooling with education.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Sherman Logan
You are correct in observing that people have their own definitions of "wealth." Personally, I think the problem originates with confusion over the term "real."

Mash the two together, especially in a headline, and you get people flooding the thread who think "real wealth" is only generated by people turning screws in a factory with a smokestack.

29 posted on 02/18/2010 6:52:29 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
That's his observation, Will. The observation is its own solution.

Only partially. The budget shortfalls are due to both flat or declining state revenues as well as mushrooming expenses and borrowing. He says little or nothing about what's caused the stagnant revenues, or stagnant economic activity, etc.

The problem of the past few years is two sided, unfavorable as to revenue, and expenses and debt.

30 posted on 02/18/2010 6:52:48 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Will88

There’s really no point in discussing this with you until you finish reading the column.


31 posted on 02/18/2010 6:57:19 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: radioone

Look at implementation of the Income Tax and the Federal Reserve...1913.....


32 posted on 02/18/2010 6:58:25 AM PST by mo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tolik

Ping.


33 posted on 02/18/2010 7:06:20 AM PST by FreedomPoster (No Representation without Taxation!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
There’s really no point in discussing this with you until you finish reading the column.

No point in discussing with you until you address my initial point: VDH presents generality after generality, but few specific to solve all the problems he identifies. He needs to lay out some specific policies to address all these problems.

The main thing that's heard these days is to reduce the corporate tax rate to make domestic companies more competitive. But that rate went from 52% to 35% during the decades when domestic corporations were becoming much less competitive.

This is not a policy that can be followed without many specifics:

We strangle Silicon Valley with all sorts of labor and business regulations until it fabricates and outsources abroad. In other words, we are creating no real new sources of concrete wealth as we nuance the shrinking capital we inherited.

He should recommend specific changes, and not deal in so many generalities.

34 posted on 02/18/2010 7:16:12 AM PST by Will88
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Will88
Just imagine if VDH wrote:

Imagine a politician announcing: we are going to raise the Social Security age to 66. We are going to freeze and cut spending until we balance the budget within three years, and then with surpluses pay down the debt within 6 years. We are going to build 100 new nuclear power plants and open up the country and its shores to oil and gas production. We are going to cut back all federal entitlements and subsidies by 20% immediately. We are going to ensure enough water for agriculture.

Oh wait, he did . . . your point was?
35 posted on 02/18/2010 7:18:32 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Gud redding iz herd.


36 posted on 02/18/2010 7:21:55 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
Our corporate taxes aren't high enough, and VDH hasn't addressed why corporations evacuate the U.S. (!), resulting in even lower government revenue.

Talk about a head-scratcher.

37 posted on 02/18/2010 7:24:36 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
I wonder if 52% corporate tax rates were low compared to the rest of the world?

I know now 39% is the second highest. Maybe if they were the highest and other taxes were raised too, that would fix our problems? And we should spend less on reading in schools.

38 posted on 02/18/2010 7:27:59 AM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Math is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Toddsterpatriot
3 short steps to invigorate the economy:

1. raise corporate taxes (increasing prices to the consumer),
2. prevent corporations from off-shoring (increasing prices to the consumer), and
3. raise import taxes (increasing prices to the consumer).

39 posted on 02/18/2010 7:34:40 AM PST by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Will88
And corporate tax rates are actually lower than they were a few decades back, the top rate going from 52% to 35%%.

This is a key thought.

In our two-party system, The Republicans have become used to a more or less permanent minority status in the legislatures of many states, and definitely at the federal level.

The official Republican Party appears actually HAPPY with this!
It absolves them of responsibility and frees them to work for their corporate constituents. Working with the Democrats, the Republicans have absolutely acquiesced in restructuring the taxes of the 1940's and 50's, transferring them from corporations to the 'Middle Class.' At the same time, the tax structure has encouraged and actually given incentives to those corporations to move their operations offshore.

In general, the Official Republicans are happy to let the Democrats do any damn thing they want ... as long as their people arfe covered.

The Republican Party used to be able to reasonably claim it represented Main Street, not Wall Street. It has kept this claim, but has substituted Main Street economic common sense for "Family Values," an issue that allows it to hold on to safe seats in more conservative areas, while selling conservatives down the river, acting as the Democrat's pushover Loyal Opposition.

My greatest fear is that the loathing the Democrats have engendered will be harnessed by RINOs who cannot wait to get back to business as usual. They don't really want control. They want their clout back.

40 posted on 02/18/2010 7:42:39 AM PST by Kenny Bunk (Go-Go Donofrio. get us that Writ of Quo Warranto!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-65 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson