Judge Land Fines Orly Taitz $20K, File Copy of Order with State Bar of CA

United States District Court (Georgia) ^ | 10/13/2009 | Judge Clay Land

[Non-Sequitur]

And this this case is relevant how....?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

It one holds the position that I am not a natural born citizen because Italian law considers me to be one of their citizens, even though I wasn't born there, my parents weren't born there, and my grandparents weren't born there, it leads to some strange places. Since Spain, for example, does not offer citizenship unto the generations in the same way, you now find yourself in the position of claiming that the US doesn't define who is and isn't a natural born citizen. Foreign countries do.

Suppose that the Republic of Togo's legislature, or whatever the hell they have, voted to consider all Americans to be citizens of Togo. Would anyone be eligible to be president?

[LorenC]

Leo's two U.S. citizen parents definition was founded on the basis of his claim that John Jay, who wrote the letter recommending that the President must be a "natural-born citizen," read Vattel (as indicated by other Jay writings), and that Vattel's work defined "natural born citizen" as having two citizen parents.

If you go back to when Vattel was first cited as THE authority on the issue, it all "started" with John Jay's letter and his reliance in other writings on Vattel.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure nobody was citing Vattel as an authority for Obama's eligibility prior to September 2008, about three months after the allegations gained popularity. Then when Vattel and his quote were discovered, he was elevated to being the patron saint of birtherdom.

In other words, just as with the search for evidence supporting 'born in Kenya' took months to bear fruit, the 'two-citizen parent' theory circulated for months before anybody dug up Vattel's quote to support the theory. Not the other way around.

[editor-surveyor]

Judge Land describing himself?

[OafOfOffice]

We believe you. Of course 30 years ago things were different. Today we have terrorism and identity theft. And now new laws have to be added because we have a usurper president. Things change.

Short forms are traceable in records even years back. You just snail mailed for them to the county where the BC was issued.

What year was your licensed issued in Texas?

[kukaniloko]

Don’t ask, don’t Vattel

[nufsed]

Whatever happened to the age-of-his-mother issue? Something like she was not old enough to establish his citizenship so the father’s citizenship was the determinant. Not sure if I worded the question correctly.

[kukaniloko]

2005

[LorenC]

Suppose that the Republic of Togo's legislature, or whatever the hell they have, voted to consider all Americans to be citizens of Togo. Would anyone be eligible to be president?

I've been saying this for ages. I even posited the hypothetical here a couple of weeks back. I got this as a response: "you chose to posit a ridiculous hypothetical. Let’s play....what are the odds that the UK will grant everyone born in the US dual citizenship?"

[bvw]

Discovery in progress, includes the discovery of who the Founders actually took as references in establishing the magnificent charter of government called the Constitution.

Happy Columbus Day add one.

[editor-surveyor]

Would you like to know what happened when I inquired on your highschool diploma?

[Bubba Ho-Tep]

Whatever happened to the age-of-his-mother issue? Something like she was not old enough to establish his citizenship so the father’s citizenship was the determinant. Not sure if I worded the question correctly.

That would apply only if he was born in Kenya.

[nufsed]

Thanx.

[Drew68]

Oh Please -- get over yourself, Axelwrong.

Axelwrong? LOL! As far as I can tell, my interpretation is currently the Law of the Land while your crackpot theories are a million miles from ever being heard in a courtroom.

But, hey, keep spinnin'! You Birthers have been dead wrong 100% of the time. Why stop now?

[OafOfOffice]

uh huh.

[Freedom2specul8]

Answer to your 730 comment which was “Whoever wrote that obviously is not familiar with the Ark case and the Elg case.”, the scotus wrote it and i posted the link to the case.

[Uncle Chip]

They phrased it based on his circumstances, not on some grand but unstated theory of natural-born citizenship.

Nonsense, read the entire thing. They were referencing the definition of the First Congress in 1790 and that was the two parent definition. Here is the resolution in its entirety:

Whereas the Constitution of the United States requires that, to be eligible for the Office of the President, a person must be a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ of the United States;

Whereas the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’, as that term appears in Article II, Section 1, is not defined in the Constitution of the United States;

Whereas there is no evidence of the intention of the Framers or any Congress to limit the constitutional rights of children born to American citizens serving in the military nor to prevent those children from serving as their country’s President;

Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress’s own statute defining the term ‘‘natural born Citizen’’;

Whereas the well-being of all citizens of the United States is preserved and enhanced by the men and women who are assigned to serve our country outside of our national borders;

Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President; and

Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be it

Resolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a ‘‘natural born Citizen’’ under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.

[editor-surveyor]

Wow! Land actually admits that he is protecting Obammer from the law. Damn!

[Red Steel]

Which is precisely how everyone alleging that Obama was born in Kenya acted up through late October 2008. Months upon months of rumors and allegations, with ZERO evidence. And then, finally, with the Sarah Obama tape, someone manufactured a shred.

Nonsense by you again. I gave you plenty of evidence that Obama is not a NBC and not eligible to be president that encompasses more than the alleged Kenyan birth.

Isn't the usual argument that Obama is wasting TOO MUCH money on these lawsuits? Having them go to trial would cost MORE!

No, Obama spent a small fortune of campaign funds and the country paying his donkey butt for Gov. lawyers - he would spend less if he would have let this go to trail. Get it over with now.

And side-stepping the lack of actual, substantive evidence supporting the 'born in Kenya' theory, in order to shift focus back to dual citizenship, isn't topic-shifting?

No again and again. The subject here is about Obama not being a natural born citizen. Palin and Nader are not.

So is the requirement 'two citizen parents' or 'no dual citizenships at birth'? They aren't the same thing, after all. Someone could fail to satisfy only one, or both. For instance, Bubba Ho-Tep stated earlier in this thread he was born a dual citizen, and he was assured that he was still as NBC because both his parents were citizens.

Assured by who? Oh a Bubba told you so. LoL! Here the chance to prove Bubba is right!! Get Obama to hear if he really is an NBC on the merits - start the trail.

If I'm going to ask my professors for clarification on the definition, I need to know which definition you're alleging is the true one.

Make sure you get a Lefty Socialist Commie one. He will tell you what you want to hear. I suggest Professor William Ayers.

[wideminded]

You can poo poo it all you want, but the mere fact that Obama had a British/Kenyan citizenship at birth makes Obama not eligible to be president.

1. I believe the correct spelling is "pooh-pooh".

2. While the fact that Obama's father was not a U.S. citizen may be relevant to Obama's NBC status, the mere fact that Obama held dual citizenship should not be an eliminating factor. A foreign country might arbitrarily grant automatic citizenship at birth to classes of Americans who did not ask for it.